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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:56 PM
Original message
Dow tops 11,000.
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 01:10 PM by jefferson_dem
The "Obama Recovery" in full bloom. :)

Dow tops 11,000
By Alexandra Twin, senior writer

April 12, 2010: 1:20 PM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks managed gains Monday, with the Dow industrials topping 11,000, after European leaders agreed to make loans available to Greece, tempering fears that the nation might have to default on its debt.

But lingering concerns ahead of the start of the quarterly reporting period limited the gains.

The Dow Jones industrial average (INDU) added 27 points, or 0.3%, topping 11,000 -- a key psychological level. On Friday, the Dow closed at its highest point since Sept. 26, 2008, when it finished at 11,143.13.

The S&P 500 index (SPX) gained 4 points, or 0.4%, after ending Friday's session at an 18-month high. The Nasdaq composite (COMP) edged up 7 points, or 0.3%, after ending the last session at the highest point since June of 2008

<SNIP>

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/12/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. It was 11k briefly on Friday. I hope it sticks. My 401k is almost back to Clinton years' value. nt
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Mine as well
It was *very* disappointing last summer. Hopefully I can land a job soon so I don't have to raid it. Savings are just about done, even on my extreme austerity budget.
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mikelgb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. GD:P?
good news, but wrong forum imo
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yes.
It's his economy and his recovery. He will get credit or blame. I inserted a few words in the OP to make that more clear.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yes, it's good news!
It's not the end of problems. It's not millions of new jobs, yet. But we are headed in the right direction, and with elections in less than 7 months, we need that as a party.
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Kdillard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. I would like to be happy about this but everything I have been reading is saying
Danger, danger and that we are headed for a major correction.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
36. some DUers have been labelling this a "dead cat" bounce since mid 2008.
Must be a cat made from flubber.

NOt saying the market isn't going to continue to fluctuate up and down; but those who predicted that the market was going to quickly fall back down to 6500 were idiots, as was anyone who believed them.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yay! I'm starting to feel trickled on!
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
51. LOL!
:rofl:
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. BFD. Makes little to no difference in most wage earning Americans' lives. eom
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 01:51 PM by ShortnFiery
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Many wage working Americans have 401Ks,
so it does make a difference to them.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yes, but the little it rises for the amounts we have, well ... it's not much. eom
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
11.  many's 401K values have risen as much as 50% since last year....
and an increase of 50% of anything can't with a straight face be called "not much".
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Well, that's amazing. Good for them but many others are not feeling "the love." eom
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. You really have no clue if what you just said is actually true, do you?
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Uh, yes. But admittedly, I don't enjoy the guidance of a wealth management counselor. eom
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
39. You would need a wealth quidance management counselor to
know a 50% increase is good? Yet you wrote yesterday about doing survey research - which does require math skills. Why challenge simple facts?
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #39
54. Yes, I have math skills but I don't like finance. Therefore, I don't attend, at times,
Edited on Tue Apr-13-10 11:03 AM by ShortnFiery
as well as I should. :blush:

BTW even financial figures quoted as FACT (50% increase) only APPLIES to a sub-set of individuals.

Therefore, your simple fact does not translate to the ENTIRE middle class populace with 401Ks.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. Of course that is true
but that is the average that the market has moved - some funds are higher and some lower. Now, if your entire 401K is in one badly performing stock, you could still be in bad shape. But, most diversified funds are up about that much.

The counter to yours is that if you had all your money in the right stock you could be up over 100% from the bottom.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. What is 50% times zero?
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. After a 50% rise, it's time to get the fuck out.. Fast
It's a bubble.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. I read somewhere the other day
that the amount of trading is really low for the sort of rise we're seeing, and it has a lot of stock market watchers scratching their heads.

Wish I could find the article...
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. 34% have over $6000.00 in investments. About 90% of that 34% are extremely wealthy.
A very small number of middle class folks have anything substantial in the stock market.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. +1
:thumbsup:
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. so 30% of Americans are extremely wealthy?
I seriously doubt it.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I interpret that statement to mean 34% of those people investing NOT total number of Americans.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. maybe thats why your handle on facts is so poor
The sentence clearly states 34% not "34% of those investing."
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Here it is a little clearer with more recent numbers.
MM: A couple years ago there was a great deal of talk of the democratization of the stock market. Is that reflected in these figures, or was it an illusion?
Wolff: I would say it was more of an illusion. What did happen is that the percentage of households with some ownership of stocks, including mutual funds and pension accounts like 401(k)s, did go up very dramatically over the last 20 years. In 1983, only 32 percent of households had some ownership of stock.

By 2001, the share was 51 percent. So there has been much more widespread stock ownership, in terms of number of families.

But a lot of these families have very small stakes in the stock market. In 2001, only 32 percent of households owned more than $10,000 of stock, and only 25 percent of households owned more than $25,000 worth of stock.

So a lot of these new stock owners have had relatively small holdings of stock. There hasn’t been much dilution in the share of stock owned by the richest 1 or 10 percent. Stock ownership is still heavily concentrated among rich families. The richest 10 percent own 85 percent of all stock.

http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2003/03may/may03interviewswolff.html
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Thank-you for taking the time to fully explain these complex concepts.
Your patience is greatly appreciated.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #27
49. That is still 32% of all households
Edited on Tue Apr-13-10 09:11 AM by mkultra
Not 32% of the 51%. Whatever is intended by the writer, the story just states that 51% of households have some ownership while 32% of households have over 10K.


This still doesn't mesh with your last statement that 90% of those 34% are extremely wealthy.
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #49
58. One more time
"By 2001, the share was 51 percent. So there has been much more widespread stock ownership, in terms of number of families.

But a lot of these families have very small stakes in the stock market. In 2001, only 32 percent of households owned more than $10,000 of stock, and only 25 percent of households owned more than $25,000 worth of stock."


I bolded the section where the author refers to 32% OF the 51% who own stock.

If that is not clear enough for you, it's no longer my problem. It has been proven with facts time and time again that the top 10% in this country own 90% of stocks. The onus on you is to now prove your flawed assumption that the vast middle class, non of which are in the top 10%, own enormous amounts of investments in the stock market.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #58
64. and again for you
Edited on Tue Apr-13-10 03:36 PM by mkultra
I have bolded that part that DOESNT say its 32% of those families.

But a lot of these families have very small stakes in the stock market. In 2001, only 32 percent of households owned more than $10,000 of stock, and only 25 percent of households owned more than $25,000 worth of stock."


NOT 32% of these households.

Even if your incorrect reading of the sentence where true, it would still make your 90% of 32% of 51% a whopping 14% being extremely wealthy.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. It was explained fully in another thread which I just perused. No explaination why ...
you handle inter-personal interactions on the web so poor. :evilgrin:
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #28
50. "poorly"
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. I was just was reflecting your word "poor" but if you wish to get all grammarian on me ...
so be it. I stand corrected. See, it doesn't hurt much to show an inkling of compromise.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. point taken
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. Thanks.
I should have reworded the sentence ... but I was on a roll. ;)
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. Many of us HAD 401Ks
In the last ten years it all went away.

Currently only half of America has a 401K. And how many of those are wage working.

Let's face facts, a rise in the stock market looks good and makes for great politcal clout, but for most of us its just more money going to the top while we get pissed on.
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #31
52. Too true.
IF we still had a 401K we'd be gratified that the levels were back up. But it doesn't matter anymore because we're back to square ZERO. Now that dh has a job again we have to rebuild our cash resources in case of another layoff and then we'll concentrate on retirement. For now, it's still survival mode.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
42. Not really. The amounts are too piddling.
In most cases, a good deal less than a year's salary.
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. If you work for a public company, the stock price can be important
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 03:14 PM by high density
It can give the "decision makers" the ability to add jobs or at least stop cutting jobs. In my opinion it's a psychological thing, but it seems important for the public companies I've worked for. When the stock price is increasing they're more likely to spend money.
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Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. you hate any news that is good for Obama. admit it.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. well, many companies gague succes by stock price
Edited on Mon Apr-12-10 03:35 PM by mkultra
and will cut heads if stock price tumbles. Not to mention that many companies own shares of other companies. It effects wage earners.
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CBR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
34. My husband teaches Pre-K. He has a 401k, matched by employer.
It means a lot to an employee making little salary with a great match and immediate vesting.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. The Dow Is A Measure of Future Confidence
And if confidence is growing, there's a good chance that the rest of the economy will grow as well. Yes, this run up is built upon the back of major economic stimuli, but it is what it is. It's confidence.

This is a positive sign, esp. given where we were in March 2009.

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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Lately, the Dow is a measure of how many suckers are about to be fleeced.
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Cali_Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Please explain
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. It means that its trendy to hate the DOW and investment in general...
...and if you don't hate it too, you aren't a liberal.
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. It seems the trend is to try and convince people the middle class has substantial investments
on wall street, that the current upswing is directly tied to the vast invested wealth of the middle class and then trying to pass that piece of right wing fiction off as liberal.
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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
35. Nooooooooooo! The market HATES Obama!!!!
Idiots.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
38. I feel richer already n/t
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-12-10 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
40. All this proves
Is that the Dow is a USELESS symbol for actually judging the propserity of the nation. If an over 10,000 dow meant half of what it was supposed to mean, this economy would be golden.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
41. For All of the Negative Nellies on this Thread
If the Dow was at 2000, then that would be good news? The Dow is a reflection of what investors think about the future of the economy. No, it's not directly tied to the economy, but it does give us a view that the people are betting that the economy will improve. It's a sentiment, much like Consumer Confidence is a sentiment.

And, the sentiment is POSITIVE. Now, I do admit that a lot of this is based on massive economic stimuli being pumped into the economy, but that's what we were screaming for when Obama became president. That's what Krugman was screaming for.

The next step is for the sentiment to translate into new investments on new projects, and that's when we will start seeing new hiring. I hope so because I am currently unemployed, and my advice to you is to use this time to continue to build up your network of contacts and develop new skills for when the jobs come back.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. What investors think is that the rest of us are sheep, good only for fleecing and slaughtering n/t
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. You're sexy when your so protesty.
Edited on Tue Apr-13-10 07:38 AM by jefferson_dem
Unfortunately, however, your comment bears no relevance to reality. When the markets are up, all benefit, albeit to varying degrees.

Anyway, try not to be so glum. Have a nice day. :hi:
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #44
59. "albeit to varying degrees"
That goes under the heading

UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE DAY
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #44
62. I have not benefitted, nor has anyone I know at my income level n/t
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. Thanks for your uplifting post. Of course, you are correct.
Edited on Tue Apr-13-10 07:43 AM by jefferson_dem
Others here are so predicatable. The real sheep are those who parrot the same doom and gloom regardless of the news. Some folks feel destined to be disappointed.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #41
60. Ooh yeah, and remember how we all cheered during the Bush years when the DOW hit 13930??
That was great!
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Kltpzyxm Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
46. Well bully for the investor class (NT)
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Yeah, us poor folk who made more money in their 401k than earnings are really pissed off
Pissed that we can't use our 401k money for daily living - lol.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
48. The responses are excessively negative
Edited on Tue Apr-13-10 08:21 AM by HughMoran
:rofl:

Not that I couldn't have told you so, but it's hilarious seeing the usual group of perpetual whiners pissing and moaning about the end of the world. We all know that this news is not the be-all end-all indicator for good economic times, but it isn't bad news. Only an idiot would spin this in a bad way. Ooops. :rofl:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
57. Kicking relevant stories!
That's not about teabaggers! :)
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golfguru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-13-10 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
63. It's great about DOW but the real market is SPX
DOW has only 30 stocks and they keep weeding the bad ones out
regularly. OTOH SPX represents 500 largest US corporations
accounting for 90%+ of equity in the entire stock market.
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