Bill Kristol: Arizona Immagration law doen't violate civil rights

[bigdarryl]

YEAH ASSHOLE that's the same shit they they said about black people when we had to go to the back of the bus.

[closeupready]

1. Here's the thing people aren't getting: Prop 8 was a trial balloon for AZ.

Lawmakers saw that you could strip even native-born Americans of their civil rights, and courts would uphold such measures.

Therefore, it was only a matter of time before a state congress like AZ's decided to apply it to illegal immigrants. IMHO, of course.

[Mz Pip]

2. The immigration law

doesn't violate his civil rights so it's fine by him.

Since it's highly unlikely Kristol will ever be stopped for driving while brown or wearing different looking shoes that's really all that matters. It doesn't affect him so it doesn't violate anyone else's rights either.

Clueless as usual.

[activa8tr]

3. Stop watching Fox News. It's all fiction over there!

I assume since you didn't put in a link that you heard this on Fox.

No?

[happygoluckytoyou]

46. AZ ... working hard to keep 'bama from being the stoopidest state in the nation

[dkf]

4. Would you have a problem with a random check like a drunk driving checkpoint?

Frankly I don't understand why we don't support our immigration laws.

[unpossibles]

7. those are not even remotely the same nt

[jdlh8894]

12. not even remotely the same

BS !!! The LEO are stopping ALL people on the road! IMHO that is worse than bigoted profiling.(Notice I did not say racial?)

[ieoeja]

14. I would and do.

Had I suggested in 1980 that the police would put up drunk driving checkpoints before the decade was out, everyone would have called that a liberal conspiracy theory. They would have shouted to high heavens that the people of the United States, even your average law-and-order conservatives, would take to their guns before permitting something like that to happen.

Also, there was a thread on the front page of DU this morning reporting the first person arrested under this law (months before it goes into effect; but some cops aren't too bright) was ultimately proven to be a natural born citizen. THAT is what is so fucking insane about this law. Since the man did not have his birth certificate with him, he was arrested and jailed until they were able to prove his place of birth.

[Hippo_Tron]

20. I have a problem with those as well

But DUI checkpoints at least don't legalize racial profiling.

[yellowcanine]

27. Sobriety check points have been deemed Constitutional. Not so for identity checks based on race.

Citizens are not required to carry proof of citizenship so how is this law supposed to be implemented fairly, when many citizens in Arizona "look like" illegal immigrants? "Reasonable suspicion" does not cut it.

[dkf]

33. Just ask for ID that can be run through and verified through state records.

And be completely random. Do it at night when you can't even tell who is in the car.

[olegramps]

34. You have been all over this board supporting this un-constitutional law.

Why don't you spend some time reading up on the 4 and 14 amendments instead of supporting legislation that is firstly unenforceable and only designed to pander to the Tea Party ignoramuses? Is that what you agenda is to support racist bastards?

[mkultra]

37. No one is required to carry identification

That's the part that's unconstitutional. As for stopping cars for citizenship checks, that would be considered a breach of the 4th amendment.

[treestar]

43. No, not interested in being pulled over by cops at night

Even if random.

[yellowcanine]

51. "Do it at night." Right. Just what we need in a democracy. More random police stops at night.

I don't think so.

[yellowcanine]

52. Also, note that in sobriety check points, it is only the DRIVER who gets checked.

And then, for something that has to do with DRIVING, not the person's immigration status.

[Drunken Irishman]

28. Yeah...if the random checks targeted people of color.

[dkf]

32. Random is random.

Every 3rd car or 5th car etc.

[mkultra]

38. when humans are involved, there is no "random"

[retread]

42. You never answered my question on a previous thread. Are you really that thick or

do you just like to stir shit? Maybe as someone suggested it's both?

[SwampG8r]

47. oh lordy

prepare to be called a racist
ignorant
and full of hate

expecting the fed to actually enforce its laws is seen as very terrible and you will be flayed for suggesting it

[DeschutesRiver]

53. Two different

With a random checkpoint, every person passing it has an equal chance of either being subjected to it, or not being subjected to it. It is random.

The Arizona law to determine the legal status of a person is not applied based on the selection of person through a random checkpoint, so that every person will equally run the risk of either being subjected to it or not.

I support immigration laws - my mother was from another country, and applied to become a citizen. People who immigrated from another country and attained citizenship should not be made to prove their citizenship over and over again, simply because they may look like a particular group of people who may be here without having applied for citizenship before coming to live and work here.

[Warren Stupidity]

57. yes those are abominations too

I am against all violations of civil rights.

[political_Dem]

5. Don't believe Kristol. He's the PNAC guy. He's still channeling Nixon's spirt

while living vicariously through Kissenger.

This man wouldn't know violations, racism and oppression even if it bit him square into the behind.

[Sky Masterson]

6. First they came for the Homosexuals

And I did nothing,because I wasn't a homosexual
Then they came for the Latinos
And I did nothing,because I wasn't a Latino..
Whats next I wonder?

[Ikonoklast]

9. Make Kristol wear the Star of David on his clothes.

See what he thinks of that.

[Sky Masterson]

11. It would be almost fitting

.

[The_Commonist]

13. You'd think a Jew, of all people...

...would be a little bit sensitive about this issue.
But no, he's a Neocon, first and foremost.

[Ikonoklast]

15. It sails right over his empty head.

And this issue should be glaringly obvious to a person of his ancestry.

How soon we forget.

[olegramps]

35. He is a Jewish Fascist Neo-con- a walking, breathing contradiction.

[Cha]

40. He's a sociopath first and foremost. nt

[tomm2thumbs]

17. forehead hologram barcodes, it is the future, get yours today

plus they look great during raves

[SwampG8r]

48. i hope its belgians!

they are soooooooooooo smug!!

[saltpoint]

8. Kristol is such a tool.

Good god, ya'll.

[benld74]

10. Send him over to Saudi with the Star of David tatooed to his forehead and see what happens

[h9socialist]

16. William Kristol wouldn't know a "civil right" if it came up and jammed a protest sign up his ass!

Remember that Kristol's father started out as a Stalinist, and later became a right-winger -- he brought Stalinism to the American right. They even kept the same enemies: American liberals. His opinion has very little weight here.

[zulchzulu]

18. He's right. It doesn't violate civil rights. It just takes civil rights away. n/t

[Seneca]

19. He is Mr. Opposite Man

You can be sure that the opposite of everything Kristol says is true.

[myrna minx]

21. I call him 'Wrong Way Kristol' because what you wrote is so very true. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

22. Someone should ask him to be the first to register for a National ID card

with a fingerprint and DNA tag...

[Clyde39]

23. What percentage of Republicans does he speak for?

I'd be interested to know.

[Puzzler]

24. If the law applied to people that looked like Kristol ...

... then, of course, it would be "unconstitutional" (according to assholes like Kristol). He's so f**king transparent.

[yellowcanine]

25. After "observing" William Kristol for many years I am convinced he is as dumb as a stump.

His dad may have been brilliant, I don't know, but if so, the Billy the kid did not inherit it.

[activa8tr]

26. Right, he's a slick talker, a snake oil salesman, but not bright bulb on

the tree.

His face looks slimy. If he came out of the office at a used car lot, I would walk away!

[SnakeEyes]

29. Technically he is right

Since the law essentially mirrors federal enforcement laws and uses similar language but makes being in the state illegally a state crime then it legally doesn't violate civil rights. It's passed legal muster for federal enforcement.

It's the implementation and actions of those enforcing it that will matter. I predict this ultimately, after appeals, will not get overturned by these initial lawsuits and instead we will have to wait until it's enforced in an illegal manner and there is with standing.

[mkultra]

39. The requirment of citizens to carry ID is NOT constitutional.

And this law amounts to a de facto requirement of all citizens to carry proof else face detainment.

[SwampG8r]

49. you are correct about the constitution and id

but do provisions of the so called patriot act demand id be carried?

[mkultra]

50. This law requires that people carry ID or face possible

detention and deportation.

[SwampG8r]

59. that is why i asked about the "patriot act"

we already detain and deport using it as a cover
i am wondering if it demands ID also

[mkultra]

60. the partiot act requires a trigger event

to my knowledge. In other words, it does not provide for random stop and search allowances. but i could be wrong about that.

[lynne]

58. Agreed. There is a similar law in one of the counties in Virginia -

- I believe that the law began almost identical to what AZ has passed. The county later toned it down a bit so that officers could only check immigration status when a person was arrested or involved in an incident and the officer had reason to believe they may be illegal - ie: car accident and driver doesn't have license, can't speak English, etc. The county couldn't afford the officers and equipment (video camera in every car) to protect themselves from potential harassment lawsuits which is why they toned it down. The revised law has been successfully in effect for several years, I believe.

[activa8tr]

30. Here's a video clip of him saying that.

Fox News and the Arizona Immigration Law

http://www.youtube.com/user/mediamatters4america#p/u/6/axawILbGhLA

[paparush]

31. Cheap words from a war criminal. nt

[donco6]

36. And Bill K was last right About something when?

Ever?

[Cha]

61. Never.

[and-justice-for-all]

41. Kristol is puke douche bag fuck....nt

[retread]

44. Bill Kristol on war with Iraq:

• 18 September 2002, Kristol promised: a war in Iraq "could have terrifically good effects throughout the Middle East".

• 21 November 2002: "We can remove Saddam because that could start a chain reaction in the Arab world that would be very healthy."

• 20 February 2003: "Look, if we free the people of Iraq we will be respected in the Arab world. … France and Germany don't have the courage to face up to the situation. That's too bad. Most of Europe is with us. And I think we will be respected around the world for helping the people of Iraq to be liberated."

• 1 March 2003: "We talk here about Shiites and Sunnis as if they've never lived together. Most Arab countries have Shiites and Sunnis, and a lot of them live perfectly well together." Also: "Very few wars in American history were prepared better or more thoroughly than this one by this president."

• 5 March 2003: "I think we'll be vindicated when we discover the weapons of mass destruction and when we liberate the people of Iraq."

• 1 April 2003: "And on this issue of the Shia in Iraq, I think there's been a certain amount of, frankly, Terry, a kind of pop sociology in America that, you know, somehow the Shia can't get along with the Sunni and the Shia in Iraq just want to establish some kind of Islamic fundamentalist regime. There's almost no evidence of that at all. Iraq's always been very secular."

Just a small example of the man's mental acuity.

[chrisa]

45. Bill Kristol is as dumb as a brick.

He's always smug, but never knows what he's talking about. I bet he also thinks, like the other tools, that regulation on Wall Street is a socialist plot to destroy America, and Obama caused the recession. How easily manipulated these loud people are.

[workinclasszero]

54. He meant it didn't violate his WHITE civil rights

So its all good in neo-con land.:puke:

[rasputin1952]

55. Why does anyone listen to that idiot...

he has not been right on anything...if he told me to buy gold, I'd run like hell, knowing the bottom will fall out in a millisecond.

[Warren Stupidity]

56. Whatever. It violates the Supremacy Clause.

The states cannot implement their own foreign policy, for example: immigration policy.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

California's Prop 187 went down in flames because of this.