The Arizona immigration law is a classic example of appearances without substance...

[Cleobulus]

and is no solution to reduce illegal immigration in this country. Its great as a law that will cause additional hassles for people, but it will do nothing to even slow down the rate of illegal immigration. Oh, I'm sure that quite a few undocumented people will be deported, big fucking deal, they will be back.

This is a classic case that people are so stupid they will accept any type of bullshit as a solution, because it creates the appearance that the government is doing something, anything. It doesn't matter if this "solution" actually works, which it won't.

The fucked up part of this debate is that those who choose sides end up throwing so much bullshit at each other they are both covered with it.

The problem is that illegal immigration isn't a problem at all, its a symptom of a larger issue that has been present for a long time now, simply put, Mexico is getting fucked over economically. When millions of Mexican farmers are driven off their lands because they can't compete with American, federally subsidized corn, they come to the United States to find work. When millions of people in Mexico have their local economies depressed and their wages lowered, they come to the United States to find work. When you have drug cartels take over entire communities to try to stay in control of the supply of drugs whose biggest customers are Americans, you drive many people in those communities into either the cartels' hands or they flee for their safety and try to find work in the United States.

Oh, and let's not assume the Mexican government is blameless in this, its not, they signed onto NAFTA after all, there is corruption and greed there like you wouldn't believe. Greed for money from the cartels to American corporations, it doesn't matter. The fact is that the Mexican government has to clean up its own act same as the United States has to clean up its own as well.

Want to reduce illegal immigration, fine, then let's find a way to let those people find opportunities for employment at HOME. Reform NAFTA to protect workers, small business, and farms from exploitation and unemployment in all NAFTA signatories. End the drug war to reduce violence in the northern Mexican states. Eliminate corn subsidies in the United States. All these are possible, yet only one is really discussed and only timidly. We can't even pretend to be serious about reducing illegal immigration if we don't discuss the sources for it in the first place.

[zipplewrath]

1. Or acknowledge the economic benefits of immigration

This country arguably benefits more economically from illegal immigration more than it suffers. The increase in consumers alone is a large benefit to the economy. Until we acknowledge that although they are here, they seem to be finding work anyway, we won't really be able to establish a "sensible" LEGAL immigration policy.

[Cleobulus]

2. Of course we benefit more, but the costs shouldn't be discounted...

and most of those costs are incurred by the undocumented workers themselves, many work in meat packing plants under horrendous conditions, hell, our agribusinesses advertise in Mexican newspapers for people to move up here to work in their factory farms and slaughterhouses. Other work in other manual labor positions, with no worker protections, and practically no rights to protect them from exploitation. Most are not getting posh positions in this country that is on easy street.

[treestar]

4. About the advertising in Mexico

Anyone have a link for that? If provable it makes a powerful piece of evidence that we are indeed luring these people here to exploit them.

[Cleobulus]

6. I got it from the movie "Food Inc." pretty good movie about agribusiness...

and where our food comes from.

[zipplewrath]

8. All true

However, much of what you describe is BECAUSE they are illegally here. With legalized status, the abuses could be addressed. By creating an underground economy, we make these abuses possible.

[Stargazer99]

3. The US is not a dumping ground for

other country's problems. I say slam that border so tight even an insect could not get through and let MEXICO start dealing with THEIR problem. Some of those job in the US paying $50,000 to $80,000 are held by Mexicans that should be given to American's. In this capitalist system cheap labor is the objective..capitalism is the problem like it or not

[Cleobulus]

5. So I'm assuming you are more interested in rhetoric than solutions?

Nice catchphrase there: "I say slam that border so tight even an insect could not get through and let MEXICO start dealing with THEIR problem."

I'd like to see how the fuck you would accomplish that, looks good on paper, impossible to do in reality, let's stick to reality for a change, hmm?

[zipplewrath]

7. You're ignoring the benefit to the US

They come here and are able to stay here for reasons. Our economy can make use of them, and is actually aided by them. The reasons why aren't all that pretty. It is their illegal status that makes some of it possible. But over all it is to our advantage for them to be here.

[phleshdef]

10. What a narrow minded, skewed view of reality.

When you share a border with another country, you and that country are going to end up sharing common problems and common interests. Thats just the way the world works. There is no avoiding that. There is no ignoring that. Luckily for America, we only share a border with 1 country that has these kinds of problems (Canada is doing pretty good). But as long as Mexico fails to gives its citizens a fair shot at a good life, then we will always feel the backlash from it. Thats just natural. Attempting to lock down the border will solve NOTHING and will result in wasted money and wasted man power. Mexico's economy basically has cancer and its the kind that spreads and causes all kinds of nasty symptoms. You want to merely attack the symptoms or find ways to ignore them. Ultimately, death will still occur when that approach is taken. Me, I want to see us actually go after the prime tumor and eradicate it.

[treestar]

11. Very unfair, in this case, considering NAFTA and US subsidized corn

The US does help create other countries' problems sometimes.

[slackmaster]

13. We need both a sensible legal immigration policy, and rigorous enforcement of immigration laws

Legal immigrants have been tested and vaccinated for a bunch of infectious diseases, and screened to ensure that they are not fugitives from justice or convicted felons in their home countries.

We need a system that makes it easy to get a temporary work visa for people who have jobs lined up in this country.

[phleshdef]

9. 100% correct. The only way to fix this is to fix Mexico. And Mexico IS our problem.

Its the price you pay for having a neighbor that isn't doing a damn thing to bring quality of life to its own people. What the hell else do you expect to happen?

[ieoeja]

12. Maybe we should purchase the 14 northern states.

The population density for 13 of the 14 northern states is extremely low. It would shrink the American/Mexican border to about 500 miles. And I bet those 14 new states would not hate illegal immigration as much.