Can a Brother Get Some Credit?

[babylonsister]

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2011/1/14/202047/242

Can a Brother Get Some Credit?

by BooMan
Fri Jan 14th, 2011 at 08:20:47 PM EST


I looked around briefly and I didn't see much attention being paid to this in the blogosphere:

In a decision that could have a major impact on both the mining industry and the Obama Administration's relationship with conservatives, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced today that it was vetoing the largest single mountaintop mining removal permit in West Virginia history. In using its authority under the Clean Water Act to block approval of the proposed 2,300-acre Spruce No. 1 Mine in Logan County, West Virginia, the EPA will earn praise from greens—including some from the Appalachians—who have long fought mountaintop mining as a destructive practice that ruins the environment and the health of those who live near the mines. But the agency will undoubtedly face a backlash from the mining industry and the West Virginia politicians—both Republican and Democrat—who defend it, at a time when the EPA is already on a collision course with business and conservatives over proposed greenhouse gas regulations.

Is it really that hard to give the Obama administration credit when they take courageous decisions?

West Virginia's two Democratic Senators, Jay Rockefeller and Joe Manchin, vented their own frustrations today in D.C.; Rockefeller fired off a letter expressing "outrage" to President Obama and Manchin pledged in a statement "to do everything in my power to fight this decision."

Keep in mind what Sens. Rockefeller and Manchin are supporting.

According to the EPA the Spruce Mine would:

Deposit 110 million cubic years of coal mine waste into streams
Fully bury more than six miles of high-quality streams in Logan County in millions of tons of mining waste resulting from the dynamiting of more than 2,200 acres of mountains and forests
Eliminate all fish, salamanders and other wildlife that live in those streams
Pollute waters downstream from those buried streams, leading to unhealthy levels of salinity and toxic levels of selenium, turning fresh water into salt water.
Cause downstream watershed degradation that will kill wildlife and increase susceptibility to toxic algal blooms.

Rockefeller and Manchin are expressing outrage that these horrible things are not going to be done to their beautiful state. How fucking twisted is that?

Congress is probably going to pass a law stripping the EPA of its regulatory authority because they don't like it actually enforcing the Clean Water Act. That's right...our government really is filled with complete assholes. Hopefully they won't be able to override the president's veto.

[mucifer]

1. I posted an article about this 2 days ago. But, it never made the national news.

Only environmental blogs are covering it. Huffington post ignored it. It reallllly bugs me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x197564

[impik]

2. But, but, but...

Rockefeller is a hero to progressives! He supported the public option!!!!!!!!!

[impik]

3. And to answer your question:

No, he can't get a credit. Not from the so-called "progressives". Bunch of fakers.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Good on Obama nt

[JoePhilly]

5. It took him way to long to do it!!

Protecting the environment was one of his most critical campaign promises and its taken him two years to do something like this. Two whole years!

And keep in mind that he hasn't single handedly cleaned up the entire gulf of Mexico yet.

Nor has he converted all of our cars to run on air. What is he waiting for.

He's terrible.

:sarcasm:

[babylonsister]

6. lol! You betcha! nt

[Clio the Leo]

7. lol when did we ever give a brother some credit?

Unless he had a ball or an instrument in his hand? Certainly you dont expect things to change now? :)

[hulka38]

9. Credit given.

It seems as if Rockefeller turned his back on his own constituents in favor of the mining industry.

[former9thward]

16. His constituents want jobs. They oppose the EPA action.

Jobs are more important than salamanders. And no, in some areas you can't have both. It is just what your priority in life is.

[hulka38]

20. Jobs versus salamanders?

Way to frame the issue in a fair and balanced way.

[former9thward]

21. Guess you didn't read the OP

[hulka38]

22. I read the OP.

This was part of your reply, "Jobs are more important than salamanders." It's in post #16 in this thread.

[former9thward]

23. I know, I wrote it.

I think jobs are more important than salamanders. So do the elected Democrats in W. Virgina. You don't. I get it.

[hulka38]

24. There's clearly more at stake here than salamanders.

Apparently you don't get that. Your framing of the issue as "jobs vs. salamanders" is disingenuous and characteristic of people with a certain ideology that we see here occasionally.

[former9thward]

26. The OP brought up salamanders. I didn't.

What is the ideology that "we" see here occasionally?

[hulka38]

27. Let me ask you this,

why didn't you choose to cite anything else from this excerpt from the OP?

Deposit 110 million cubic years of coal mine waste into streams. Fully bury more than six miles of high-quality streams in Logan County in millions of tons of mining waste resulting from the dynamiting of more than 2,200 acres of mountains and forests. Eliminate all fish, salamanders and other wildlife that live in those streams
Pollute waters downstream from those buried streams, leading to unhealthy levels of salinity and toxic levels of selenium, turning fresh water into salt water.
Cause downstream watershed degradation that will kill wildlife and increase susceptibility to toxic algal blooms.

All that and you chose to frame the counter argument as saving a few lizards. You couldn't have missed it. You pulled your salamanders right out from the middle of it. I don't need to explain this to you further. You know exactly what you're doing and seem to be fairly adept at it. Derisive, false arguments, strawmen etc. are not welcome here.

[former9thward]

29. The OP is not being honest.

You have adopted his/her derisive, false arguments, strawmen, etc. for your purposes and that is not welcome here. Why didn't the OP link to the EPA instead of SAYING what the EPA said? I believe elected Democrats who stand by their people over anonymous posters who put made up things on the internet any day.

[hulka38]

31. Ah, the "I know you are but what am I" retort.

Haven't seen it in a while but more power to you. And you still stand by your original argument that the only thing being harmed by "the largest single mountaintop mining removal permit in West Virginia history" is it will kill some salamanders. Have fun at DU!

[former9thward]

32. Again you have no facts.

Typical. You have fun too.

[steve2470]

10. k and r nt

[vaberella]

11. Brother (Black guy) and Credit, don't normally come hand in hand. n/t

[Overseas]

12. K&R ! //nt

[MH1]

13. Good on the EPA. Worst thing about Rockefeller and Manchin?

They're better than the alternatives.

:puke:

[phleshdef]

14. You can't get elected in WVa unless you are pro-coal because its the only major job supplier.

Rockefeller is great on just about every other issue that doesn't include coal regulation.

[Exilednight]

15. I hate to burst your bubble, but Obama had nothing to do with it. The EPA is

The EPA has more autonomy than the Justice Department. This was not Obama's decision, it was the EPA's decision. The EPA is just operating within their Congressional mandate and set of rules given.

I will give Obama credit for appointing Lisa Jackson as head of the EPA, but that's about it.

Other than that, it's like trying to give a president credit because the IRS finally decided to audit Goldman Sachs.

[FrenchieCat]

17. LOL!

Posted by Exilednight
"I hate to burst your bubble, but Obama had nothing to do with it....
I will give Obama credit for appointing Lisa Jackson as head of the EPA, but that's about it."


Please, Brother doesn't that kind of credit. Don't do him any favors. Please. :rofl:

[vaberella]

19. So then...doesn't he get credit afterall?

Because if he had appointed someone who didn't do what Jackson did, wouldn't most on DU be bashing him for what the EPA does. Much like he got bashed for what went down with the TSA...which is also fairly autonomous.

[Jakes Progress]

18. That's cool. Nice to see him use his powers.

Of course when people complain about the things that don't get done, we are told that we are naive, that the president really has no powers, that all that bad stuff is done by congress and a bunch of agencies, that we shouldn't expect the president to be able to do things like this.

I'm glad this got done. I'll credit the president for doing it. Let's just remember that he can do stuff the next time the chant goes out that he president is helpless because of all those bad forces in Washington. Anyone think the mining industry is a weak opponent?

(By the way, i didn't know the OP and the president were even related.)

[mmonk]

25. That's actually something I would expect from a Democratic Party president.

Coal mining state representatives will almost always side the company.

[Demoiselle]

28. I've had the impression that since Obama took office...

the EPA has actually been doing its job. I haven't been taking notes, but it seems the agency has shed the Bush influence (and by influence I mean handcuffs) and has been really enforcing protective laws. It's one of the factors I remind myself of when I start feeling defeated and disheartened about how slowly "change" seems to be happening. Is my impression completely bogus?

[Fuddnik]

30. I'll give him credit.

It's tough to fight the mining interests in W. Va. Logan County is dirt poor, and mining is about the only job to be had there. I had an uncle who was crushed in a collapse there years ago.

Two years ago, I was in Logan County to scatter my mothers ashes around where she was born and grew up. I hadn't been back there in over 30 years. It looked like the same shacks that were standing on the hillsides back in the '50s were still there.

Two years ago, we were still in the depths of the recession, and the Best Western I was staying in was hosting a jobs fair for Massey Energy.

[SpartanDem]

33. Amen

[butterfly77]

34. K&R!