Simple question: What are the conservative arts?

[tomhaverford]

I've always wondered this and can never come up with an answer. I'm using "conservative arts" as an umbrella term to describe just about anything that is aesthetic in nature. And for the sake of argument, think of conservatism as a lifestyle. That is, ignore people who are conservative on certain subjects only (economy, foreign policy, etc).

What moves a conservative? What informs a conservative's views on anything beyond the literal/material and into transcendent and ecstatic? Every time I think about it, it always comes back to religion/divinity. No doubt religion has contributed a great deal to the arts throughout history but that's a very suppressive and defined realm of art that serves only to enshrine and transcribe life but rarely to celebrate and comment on life. Where's the imagination, the idealism, the joy, the sobriety, the hope? It seems to me that conservatism beyond the comfort that religious delusion provides must be totally miserable. No wonder they hate the "liberal media", which apparently include EVERYTHING that doesn't conform to their narrow worldview. No wonder they abhor the NEA and NEH, PBS and NPR. It's not about "bias", because even they know that's a ridiculous charge. The liberal arts pose a constant and exigent threat to that narrow worldview and they can't handle the resulting cognitive dissonance. If that makes me an elitist, I'm proud to be one.

[baldguy]

1. Warfare, murder, torture, genocide...

And basketweaving.

[phasma ex machina]

10. There you go. "The Art of War." It turns out Sun Tzu was a conservative. nt

[baldguy]

24. Sun Tzu was a progressive.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=439&topic_id=203981&mesg_id=204144

Sun Tzu Wu was a native of the Ch`i State. His ART OF WAR brought him to the notice of Ho Lu, <2> King of Wu. Ho Lu said to him: "I have carefully perused your 13 chapters. May I submit your theory of managing soldiers to a slight test?"

Sun Tzu replied: "You may."

Ho Lu asked: "May the test be applied to women?"

The answer was again in the affirmative, so arrangements were made to bring 180 ladies out of the Palace. Sun Tzu divided them into two companies, and placed one of the King's favorite concubines at the head of each. He then bade them all take spears in their hands, and addressed them thus: "I presume you know the difference between front and back, right hand and left hand?"

The girls replied: Yes.

Sun Tzu went on: "When I say "Eyes front," you must look straight ahead. When I say "Left turn," you must face towards your left hand. When I say "Right turn," you must face towards your right hand. When I say "About turn," you must face right round towards your back."

Again the girls assented. The words of command having been thus explained, he set up the halberds and battle-axes in order to begin the drill. Then, to the sound of drums, he gave the order "Right turn." But the girls only burst out laughing. Sun Tzu said: "If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, then the general is to blame."

So he started drilling them again, and this time gave the order "Left turn," whereupon the girls once more burst into fits of laughter. Sun Tzu: "If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, the general is to blame. But if his orders ARE clear, and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their officers."

So saying, he ordered the leaders of the two companies to be beheaded. Now the king of Wu was watching the scene from the top of a raised pavilion; and when he saw that his favorite concubines were about to be executed, he was greatly alarmed and hurriedly sent down the following message: "We are now quite satisfied as to our general's ability to handle troops. If We are bereft of these two concubines, our meat and drink will lose their savor. It is our wish that they shall not be beheaded."

Sun Tzu replied: "Having once received His Majesty's commission to be the general of his forces, there are certain commands of His Majesty which, acting in that capacity, I am unable to accept."

Accordingly, he had the two leaders beheaded, and straightway installed the pair next in order as leaders in their place. When this had been done, the drum was sounded for the drill once more; and the girls went through all the evolutions, turning to the right or to the left, marching ahead or wheeling back, kneeling or standing, with perfect accuracy and precision, not venturing to utter a sound. Then Sun Tzu sent a messenger to the King saying: "Your soldiers, Sire, are now properly drilled and disciplined, and ready for your majesty's inspection. They can be put to any use that their sovereign may desire; bid them go through fire and water, and they will not disobey."

But the King replied: "Let our general cease drilling and return to camp. As for us, We have no wish to come down and inspect the troops."

Thereupon Sun Tzu said: "The King is only fond of words, and cannot translate them into deeds."

[Merlot]

27. how does this story make him a progressive?

[baldguy]

30. Women in the military?

The US just allowed women in combat only very recently. Sun Tzu beat them to it by 2500 yras.

[Hannah Bell]

63. lol.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Supreme fail the idea that you can fit a man

who lived so long ago in China as a modern day conservative is crazy.

He also wrote this for his King... and he proved it with women.

In fact, his ideas and philosophy are not just of military use, and are quite progresive. I am sure you have never read the Art of War... or it's close cousin, the Five Rings by Musashi.

[phasma ex machina]

49. If you say so. Sun Tzu was a progressive warpig.

:rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Ah yes, supreme fail and willful ignorance

why am I not surprised?

[Warpy]

15. Wait a minute there

Basket weaving takes knowledge and a certain amount of talent. I have never met a conservative who was capable of weaving a decent looking basket, and gawd knows I've tried to teach enough of them how to do it.

Thomas Kinkade is an example of conservative "art," oversaturated paintings of saccharine subject matter, printed by the thousands and decorated with a few blobs of additional paint to qualify as "original, one of a kind" paintings and sold for ten times what any print is worth to new money with no brains or taste.

[Merlot]

26. kinkade - perfect example of "conservative art"

he doesn't even paint them anymore, he gives the concepts to artists in his employ who work in his style.

probably minimum wage artists, or better yet, "independent contractors" with no insurance, rights, or unemployment insurance. probably makes the "art" a little sweeter.

I've heard a lot of fundies like kink-a-de

[baldguy]

43. Ars gratia ususfructus.

[Electric Monk]

2. Nascar?

[Erose999]

39. Ironic that the Repukes spend hours watching people "turn left" isn't it? LOL nt

[DCKit]

73. What an excellent idea for a protest sign: "TURN LEFT"

[lumberjack_jeff]

3. That's actually an excellent question.

There are a few successful conservative writers, but not many.

Architects? Painters? Poets?

Hell, I don't even know any good conservative boatbuilders.

[tomhaverford]

7. That's the thing though

Isn't about quantity and success. I want to know what the heck it IS to begin with. There are architects and painters and even poets who are conservatives, but how many of them are NOT in it for Jesus? If they're in it for the art, they're engaging in something that is inherently liberal. That's why I think conservative art is an oxymoron.

[lumberjack_jeff]

8. Hey, this is art

http://img3.visualizeus.com/thumbs/09/10/02/american,christian,crazy,greed,nationalist,outsider,art-2f3633f6db5907cd0d3b768da1108f57_h.jpg

Of a sort.

[Kurovski]

28. That Christ is wearing a perfectly fabulous outfit!

But why is Lincoln doing an Al Jolson impression?

[johnnie]

36. .

:spray:

[Aristus]

46. I never knew that Jesus was a Captain of the Knights of Gondor.

He's wearing the emblem of Gondor on his robe... :P

[Kurovski]

47. What's a Gondor?

A gondola driving Condor?

[hatrack]

55. Is that Jesus or Aragorn? The tree on his vest is . . confusing.

:rofl:

[lumberjack_jeff]

70. Riders of Rohan! Join me! Smite cellphone guy and microphone lady!! n/t

[Aristus]

71. Think Jesus could lead a charge of Gondorians & Rohirrim on donkey-back?

Just asking... :P

[patrick t. cakes]

92. Looks like rain

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Motown_Johnny]

5. misspelled protest signs?

[DCKit]

6. Fig leaves and drapes on nekkid statues. nt

[Motown_Johnny]

9. I Got One!!!

Jesus and Mary Grilled Cheese Sandwiches!

[DaveinJapan]

11. "Where's the imagination, the idealism, the joy, the sobriety, the hope?"

Well, I'd say that J.S. Bach did pretty nicely within the confines of Religious rules.

But on that point, you are certainly correct that artists who work in the name of (or under the thumb of) religion are certainly discouraged from pushing the envelope, that's for sure.

On what are "Conservative" arts, Country Music maybe?

[tomhaverford]

17. Country music

I guess country music is technically art but what do country artists write about? Their dog and truck? It never surpasses the here and now.

[DaveinJapan]

20. Know what happens when you play country music backwards?

The singer gets his dog back, his girl back, his truck back, etc...

:p

[Erose999]

41. Not ALL country music... Gram Parsons, Steve Earle, Townes Van Zandt, Emmy Lou, there are lots of

country artists who aren't affiliated with the GOOP.


I'll give it to you that the crap passed off as "country music" nowadays on "country radio" is pretty much exclusively conservative domain. That being said, it has little to do with the "country" and even less to do with "music".

[maryf]

64. don't forget Willie Nelson or the Dixie Chicks...nt

[verges]

40. Leonardo

Michaelangelo

[CTyankee]

86. And Fra Angelico worked completely under the aegis of the church.

It is said that he painted the various crucifixion scenes in each monk's cell at San Marco with tears streaming down his face.

Fra Filippo Lippi, however, was a monk with a different story. His favorite model for his fabulous madonnas was a young novitiate nun that he seduced and impregnated while he was in charge of their convent...

[begin_within]

12. Stuff like this:

[jmowreader]

13. That's very simple...

ponzi schemes, 419 scams, complex derivatives and phony grassroots political "movements."

[Mojeoux]

14. Scrap-Booking and Shopping Channels?

Can You get a Degree in Conservitive Arts like you can in Liberal Arts?

[Cerridwen]

16. My first thought is kincade.

My second thought was the blond nazi twins; oh, and pat boone.

That's visual and 'music'. I can't think of anything for written unless it's the king james version of the bible. Except I'm not sure they realize there's a whole New Testament part of the Bible.

[FormerDittoHead]

35. Here are some examples of "Thomas Kincade"

obligatory note: this is a parody.

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/photoshop-phriday/paintings-light-ii.php

[Kurovski]

44. !

:rofl: Oh those are great! I love the nazi flag on the porch, and the police cars around the lake.

Thank you.

[Cerridwen]

91. Wow. I didn't know you could make kincade interesting.

Some of those are, interesting. I guess I'm just twisted enough to appreciate those.

[fascisthunter]

78. yup... a Fraud who Cons buyers into collecting his shit

making them believe collecting his shit would be an investment.

[Cerridwen]

90. I didn't know that part. I just thought it was, less than

'artistic.' I know the aesthetics of art are relative, but cookie-cutter paintings that look like cake frosting deigns don't strike me as art; unless they're on a cake. :)

[fascisthunter]

94. I Have an Old Friend who Has one of his Paintings on his Wall

He and his wife invited me and my partner over and there it was, right over our heads on the wall. He was so happy to have it and stated it would be an investment. After that evening I went online and found out people were going out of their way to buy his crap because they were convinced it was collectable. It will be one day, because the guy is a con rip-off artist. Figures he's a conservative too...

[Stevenmarc]

87. Don't forget Jon McNaughton

http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/artwork/view_zoom/?artpiece_id=353

[Cerridwen]

89. I clicked your link. You owe me some Tums. Blech.

Just blech.

[TheKentuckian]

18. Propaganda, cooking the books, projection, theocracy, police states, bigotry, ignorance,

and all sorts of theft, lies, and wanton acts of violence.

[ixion]

19. the crafts

would be my answer.

[knitter4democracy]

22. Most knitters I know are liberals.

It would depend on the craft.

[Warpy]

67. Then you'd be wrong

I can tell you most fiber artists are lefties and that's a worldwide phenomenon. I'm in one of those online communities and it turns political once in a while and probably 80% are left-o.

I'm not sure about Suzy Scrapbooker. I don't know anybody who does that, my friends IRL are all hard core with floor looms in their living rooms and spindle racks hanging from the ceiling, jars of knitting needles on the end tables. The friends who paint and quilt are largely the same.

Again, Thomas Kinkade is your archetype of the right wing artist, a fake who produces calendar art prints with blobs of paint to make it "original."

[eShirl]

21. first thing to mind was jam making

preserves, conserves

[name not needed]

23. cooking crystal meth, incest, commemorative plates

[datasuspect]

25. lying and sophistry

[Kurovski]

29. The art of hypocrisy, perfected.

Not that everyone isn't a hypocrite now and then. The righties hold it high as an artform.

[pintobean]

32. martial arts

[Scruffy1]

33. Avoiding facts has been raised to an art form

[daleo]

34. Martial arts

War. The art of bullying.

Some music - "la,la,la, I can't hear you".

Some drama - e.g. crocodile tears.

[AnnieBW]

37. Shooting, Truck Pulls, NASCAR

Hunting, fishing (with a gun). Basically anything that involves killing another being.

[provis99]

38. conservatives are philistines, pure and simple.

Lawrence Welk on Saturday night is about as cultural as they get.

[Withywindle]

42. Historical revisionism.

Hey, some of it is VERY inventive.

[Igel]

45. Content.

Some are more conservative, and tend not to try to shock. Often they try to please.

They try to preach just as much as a lot of "progressive" "artists" ("artist" in quotes because for me it primarily means paint/sculpture, but here I intend it to include musicians, composers, writers, architects, etc.)

The town I lived in for a while had a conservative composer. He mostly composed stuff for a church. Put together a 2-hour work, had it performed before an audience of a few hunred people. The local critics refused to write about it because it wasn't an ongoing concern--it was performed once and that was it, unlike the opera that would be on Friday and Saturday, say. The conservative wanted to write stuff that people liked. The local critics, however, would publish pieces on student works that were avant garde, "though provoking," "experimental," or otherwise piqued their interest. Even if they were performed in a student ensemble on a Sunday afternoon with 30 people in the audience, never to be done again.

It was always funny talking to the professional musicians in the symphony. Some liked modern, "progressive" music--and viewed the audience as philistines in need of becoming enlightned, wiser, progressive--more like the musicians, who viewed themselves as models of aesthetic appreciatin for the audience to aspire to. They basked when the orchestra would play Crumb and get a nice write-up by a critics, and were satisfied when the Beethoven or Brahms got short shrift. They were pissed when a concern featuring warhorses would sell out but a "modern" concert would have 25% of the seats sold. Some were more conservative and liked the Beethoven and Brahms, figuring that the orchestra should primarily entertain and not "educate." They were pissed off when the music director started programming a constant mix of old and new stuff, until the pattern became clear: When the "popular" dowdy classical stuff was played first and the modern "progressive" stuff played last, people would leave early. So the music director moved the modern stuff first--"Aha, got them!" only to find attendance dropped off or people showed up late.

One result was a chamber orchestra devoted, really, to playing little after Beethoven, figuring that the musicians liked it *and* the audience liked it. Give the audience what it likes. Smaller sound, smaller hall, but almost always sold out. Most of the musicians liked playing the "older" stuff, but even the modern stuff wasn't experimental and was well received.

[LynneSin]

48. I think this guy qualifies for 'conservative arts'

http://www.velvetpaintings.com/

[Stevenmarc]

95. His sneering Cheney is a masterpiece of the genre.

[Angry Dragon]

50. They do not believe in envelopes

as in pushing them

[WCGreen]

51. Dogs playing poker...

[phasma ex machina]

57. Hey! I got one of those!

But, I also got one of these:



So, do they cancel or something?

:rofl:

[WCGreen]

62. Yes, but are your dogs in velvet black lite friendly material...

[alfredo]

53. Porn

From my liberal friends I get a wide selection of subjects, from my conservative friends it is guns, god, and porn.

[Cleita]

54. Art requires an act of creation. Conservatives like to

destroy things and kill them.

[chade]

60. Perversion of cultural iconography

I was talking to a friend about this a few days ago. From a lot of what I've seen of conservative arts, the signage at events and imagery that is passed around and shared, one of the things that strikes me is how little of it is original. It seems that the right has only the ability to pervert that which already exists.

The most notable example of this was back at Glenn Beck's 'Restoring Honor' rally. My jaw literally dropped because the backdrops that were done up (with images of Lincoln, etc.) were aesthetic copies of the Shepard Fairey 'Hope' Obama designs. This in addition to the numerous accounts of mostly war-propaganda related re-appropriations.

As far as conservative artists, quite a few designers and illustrators I follow seem to have at least a bit of a Libertarian streak to them, if not right-wing, although a lot of that seems to come more from the business side of things (most of this conservative artist sample are freelancers/independents).

[Hugabear]

56. Ted Nugent, "Wang Dang Sweet Poontang" - how can you argue with such sheer brilliance

:sarcasm:

[Spider Jerusalem]

58. You DO know that "liberal arts" has nothing to do with politics, I hope?

It comes from Latin liber, meaning "free", and originally meant the education appropriate to a free person (as opposed to a slave).

[tomhaverford]

59. Where did you get the idea that I meant that?

I'm thinking in the extreme abstract here. That said, the creation and appreciation of art of all kinds is very much a liberal (political sense of the word) uptaking. My theory/thesis is that 1) conservatives resent the fact that art (a lot of which they consume) is inherently liberal in nature and this comes through in their hostility to the "liberal media" and 2) if there is such a thing as "conservative art" it's almost always religious in nature.

[Spider Jerusalem]

77. The fact that you said "conservative arts"?

that's not 'extreme abstract', that's just silliness.

[tomhaverford]

80. BS

What did you not understand about "I'm using 'conservative arts' as an UMBRELLA TERM TO DESCRIBE JUST ABOUT ANYTHING THAT IS AESTHETIC IN NATURE." I thought that made it pretty clear that I'm thinking on a very abstract level. Think of it another way if you can't handle it as is: "what is art to conservatives?" Or just go back to your wikipedia reading.

[MilesColtrane]

61. Fuckstickery?

Douchedness?

[hobbit709]

65. Lying, stealing, total lack of empathy.

and probably Thomas Kinkade paintings

[maryf]

66. Too bad

PBS and NPR are barely maintaining even a centrist liberal view...Democracy NOW is about the furthest left in this country that you can get, and they gate keep a little bit...Here's some art that poses an exigent threat, Botero did a whole series on Abu Ghraib (thanks to a fellow DU'r for exposing me to this exhibit a couple years ago):

[Octafish]

68. Treason. War. Genocide. Fraud. Ignorance.

There are more, as detailed in this excellent post.

A hearty welcome to DU, tomhaverford.

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. Historical writing and biography

Winston Churchill won the Nobel Prize for Literature for his histories (a bit of a gift, because they wanted to recognise him for the war, but they're still not badly written); Conrad Black wrote a well-received biography of FDR; many historians are quite conservative.

[Hello_Kitty]

76. Good answer.

And it is true that many historians are conservative. But they're not reactionary.

[tomhaverford]

79. Historians?

Historians do art?

[muriel_volestrangler]

81. The Greeks had a Muse for History

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/mgodsandgoddesses/tp/Muses.htm

It's analytical rather than creative, and it looks at the past rather than the future, but that's appropriate for a conservative. It is an art rather than a science.

[frogmarch]

72. Listening to Focus on the Family and

responding to and forwarding “What Pastor Dobson Wants Us to Do Now to Stop the Evul Libruls” emails.

When not doing that, they are busy trying to come up with interesting ways in which to hang and display their peeled, upside down, flu-preventing onions.

[road2000]

74. Hmmm. Truck nuts? n/t

[affrayer]

75. You Want To See Conservative Art Up Front And Personal

[Ichingcarpenter]

82. The Masters of the Art of Propaganda

for the stupid masses and now they control yours.

[progressivebydesign]

83. making lanyards in prison, while serving time for corruption. n/t

[lunatica]

84. A conservative looks at abstract art and simply doesn't get it or denigrates it

And invariably they'll say anyone can do it.

[B Calm]

85. Off shoring American manufacturing jobs and tax cuts for the wealthy bastards.

[Vickers]

88. Reloading ammo. n/t

[Faryn Balyncd]

93. Linda McMahon thinks wrestling is high art.

[Marr]

96. They love their symbols.

http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/artwork/view_zoom/?artpiece_id=353

I love these types of conservative paintings. It really a whole genre. They put all these symbols of establishment and authority together into a big soup, and assume they're all one and the same. If you could look into their minds like a cabinet, you'd find apple pie and Jesus Christ in the same drawer, if you follow me.

I really think "conservative" in this country isn't so much about right-wing politics as it is about stupidity and love of authority. It's really just a word for describing the unwashed masses whom real right-wing interests rely upon.

[TheKentuckian]

97. I forgot "drawing" up districts. Everybody gerrymanders but they take it to a form of art.