Psychic Told Loughner To Get Help Told Friends in 2005 'The Kid Is Lethal'

[jakeXT]

Psychic Told Loughner To Get Help

PHOENIX -- He was Mary Ann Morgan's second-to-last client of the day. She says the moment Jared Loughner made eye contact, she felt terror.

"Immediately," she said in a second exclusive interview with CBS 5 News. "My radar went off immediately as soon as he walked in the room."

For nearly 15 years, Morgan has made a living as a psychic medium. CBS 5 News has confirmed she worked on high profile missing persons and murder cases including Natalee Holloway, who disappeared in Aruba in 2004, and local consignment store owner Loretta Bowersock, who was killed in 2005.

Morgan said no client has ever scared her as much as Jared Loughner. He was polite and quiet that day in July 2005, but she said she felt that he was capable of violence, so she tried to lighten the mood. "I kind of laughed it off," she said. "But I asked him if he had a knife or a gun and was there to hurt me."

She said Loughner told her he was there not to hurt her but to ask for help. Morgan said he had researched her background. "He said, 'Well I've seen you on TV and you've been so open about the fact that you hear voices.' And I said, 'Really? Do you hear voices?' And he said, 'Yes, I hear voices."


...

http://www.kpho.com/news/26500102/detail.html

[Brickbat]

1. Sweet bippy.

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel now, aren't they?

[Orrex]

2. NEWS FLASH: Snake-oil Peddler Tries To Drum Up Publicity

[Psephos]

14. News Flash (from actually reading the article): She told police about it at the time.

And other people too.

She recognized that his description of the voices in his head telling him to do things were signs of schizophrenia, and it scared her cold.

[LisaL]

15. So she says.

Any proof that any of it actually happened?

[Psephos]

16. I would accept corroboration from someone she told at that time, for example. n/t

[LisaL]

17. Her psychic friends?

[Psephos]

21. The cops she called would do just fine. n/t

[LisaL]

26. I notice that CBS5 news doesn't say it confirmed she actually

called any cops. But it did confirm she worked on high profile cases such as Natalee Holloway's. Well last I checked Natalee Holloway is still missing, so pardon me if I am not exactly impressed by the fact she worked on that case.

[H2O Man]

31. I read the article.

She said that she contacted the police. That doesn't, as you & others note, mean that she did. And if she actually did, the police would not have taken the call seriously. There are psychics who the police listen to, but she does not seem to fit that description. Those who are pretending that this article is meaningful should ask themselves: what would the police do with a call from someone who said they just met a 16-year old, who they "see" in prison at some future date? Besides laugh?

[Psephos]

34. If I was a cop and a psychic called me about someone hearing voices, I'd laugh too.

But I would also note the call in the log as required.

This incident is so tertiary to the shooting that I am treating it, and this thread, as entertainment (and it's succeeding at that quite well). :)

That said, if this psychic was so frightened by her schizophrenic new client that she stopped taking new clients face-to-face from that point on, and furthermore, if she told others, including cops about it, I expect there will corroboration...not that it will mean much anyway.

I was prompted to post by the obvious narrative-merchants who discounted out-of-hand the idea that the shooter was a likely paranoid schizophrenic with violent fantasies and voices that drove him to act upon those fantasies. They used the usual trick of attacking the witness instead of what was witnessed.

It's disgusting to deny the realities of psychotic mental illness to advance a political idea. Those sorts who do it here often self-identify by revealing they haven't read what they're posting so mockingly about.

[LisaL]

35. If she could produce any proof she actually talked to the police,

even if they laughed in response, at least it would verify the story. As it is, I don't see any proof provided in the article that any of this had happened.

[Orrex]

19. Well, it's not "concerned citizen notified police that Loughner was crazy"

It's "woman who makes her living by convincing people that she's psychic claims to have told the police about Loughner five years ago."

And tell me again how the voices that she hears are different from the voices that he hears?

[Psephos]

23. "tell me again how the voices that she hears are different from the voices that he hears?"

Read the article, it's in there.

There must be some reason for not reading the article you're posting about so vigorously, but I can't think of one.

[Orrex]

36. Tell me again how the voices that she hears are different from the voices that he hears?

So she pretends that the voices in her head are those of dead people? Sounds like she's the last person on Earth who should be advising other crazy people that they need medication.

[Psephos]

37. Here you go...

Go wild. :)

http://www.schizophrenia.com/ami/

[Orrex]

39. Tell me again how the voices that she hears are different from the voices that he hears.

Put simply, since she's one of the people who's hearing voices, she's not qualified to assess whether his voices are any crazier than her voices.

The fact that she's duped people into giving her money to talk about the voices isn't particularly authoritative or convincing.

[Psephos]

41. If you can't grasp the nature of the voices a schizophrenic hears, it's not my problem.

And it's clear that you don't - or actually, won't.

[LisaL]

42. As opposed to the nature of voices a psychic hears?

[Orrex]

45. Obviously the voices that she hears are proof of sanity

In contrast, the voices that Loughner hears are proof of schizophrenia.


Gosh! Don't you know anything about schizophrenia?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[LisaL]

47. Hey! I watch the Ghost Whisperer, so I know all about talking to the

dead. I tell ya!

[Orrex]

49. Whoa! Sorry!

I didn't realize that I was conversing with an expert!

[Psephos]

50. Yes. Exactly.

The voices a psychic hears do not cause him/her to assassinate people.

Do you start to see the difference here?

My niece was brutalized and left for dead by a schizophrenic during a psychotic episode directed by a demonic voice. Yet she is not afraid of psychics even now. Using your line of thinking, it sounds like she should be.

Perhaps after you've had fun trivializing the devastation a schizophrenic's voices can wreak by comparing them to a fortuneteller's impressions, you'll take another look at the matter.

[Orrex]

53. I dated a woman who was later diagnosed as clinically schizophrenic

She heard voices and suffered full-sensory hallucinations for years, but never once did the voices tell her to harm herself or anyone else.

Sorry, but your arbitrary standard simply doesn't match up to reality. Some schizophrenics hear voices that tell them to kill, but not all. You can't use it as a black-and-white distinction between a mentally ill assassin and a for-profit huckster.

[Psephos]

55. You're the one projecting black and white views, not me.

Your conflation of my niece's story with a blanket statement about schizophrenics that I did not and would not make is risible. You seem to have skipped the part about me mentioning paranoid schizophrenia with psychotic delusion and just went on about plain vanilla schizophrenia as if they're the same thing.

Again, your agenda is showing. :) Maybe now you'll go to that very good site I linked....nah.

One of my college roommates also suffered from schizophrenia, non-violent type. Ended up institutionalized, but never hurt a fly.

The psychic may be full of shit, or might be telling the truth. I'm willing to hear her out, and wait for corroboration. You're not. You apparently want the shooter to have been politically motivated, instead in thrall to inner voices and delusions. (That's my guess based on the way you mocked a witness with a view you don't support.) I don't see much to support your point of view, and that's truer each passing day.

[Orrex]

58. If that's what you think my agenda is, you don't know much about anything.

Additionally, you're the one who drew the black-and-white distinction when you cited the difference between the "psychic" and the schizophrenic by the assertion that her voices don't tell her to kill people while his do. That's an arbitrary distinction that is in any case contrary to reality.

In addition, you haven't yet revealed how you came by your diagnosis of Loughner. Did a psychic tell you?

You apparently want the shooter to have been politically motivated, instead in thrall to inner voices and delusions. (That's my guess based on the way you mocked a witness with a view you don't support.)

Then that's a fool's guess, and it's also incorrect. I defy you to find me a single post of mine anywhere on the internet in which I claimed that Loughner was politically motivated.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

[Psephos]

60. I know the difference between what a psychic claims to hear, and what a psychotic hears.

"Additionally, you're the one who drew the black-and-white distinction when you cited the difference between the "psychic" and the schizophrenic by the assertion that her voices don't tell her to kill people while his do. That's an arbitrary distinction that is in any case contrary to reality."

Yes, I'd say that the difference between what those two parties here is black and white. You sure got me there. ;)


"In addition, you haven't yet revealed how you came by your diagnosis of Loughner. Did a psychic tell you?"

I actually stated that I don't know anything with certainty. More failure to read on your part, apparently. Like you, and everyone else, I have my opinions.

" 'You apparently want the shooter to have been politically motivated, instead in thrall to inner voices and delusions. (That's my guess based on the way you mocked a witness with a view you don't support.)'
Then that's a fool's guess, and it's also incorrect. I defy you to find me a single post of mine anywhere on the internet in which I claimed that Loughner was politically motivated.

Go ahead, I'll wait."

Skipped over the part again where I said (and you actually quoted!) me saying that's my guess? That reading thing again...

I have my opinions about why you mocked the fortuneteller's account with such alacrity, but with new evidence, I'd re-evaluate, no problem. So go ahead, prove me wrong. I'll wait.

[Orrex]

63. I love it when internet soap-boxers accuse people of failing to read.

It's akin to mocking typos and misspellings as if these actually undercut one's argument. Both tactics are shorthand ways of saying "I can't really support my claim, so I'll make a half-assed personal attack to see if I can rattle you."

Well, you're welcome to keep trying, but it won't make your "guesses" or "opinions" any more compelling or convincing.

As to the rest, I'll consider you to have made one interesting point at least if you can give a straight answer to the following:
Why do you "guess" that the psychic's voices are not proof of schizophrenia but that Loughner's voices are proof of his?

That answer, I submit, will reveal as much about your agenda as you think you've discerned of mine.

[Orrex]

43. Tell me again how the voices that she hears are different from the voices that he hears.

Whether you comprehend it or not, you're not actually answering; you're simply asserting again and again that he's schizophrenic and she's not.

Has he been formally diagnosed, by the way? Or are you giving him a Frist-style diagnosis from afar? If the latter, then how do you determine that she's not schizophrenic?

Or are you instead simply accepting the diagnoses of media commentators who haven't spoken with him either?

[Psephos]

51. Entertaining post indeed, by someone desperate to defend a narrative.

I have no narrative here. I don't know anything for certain, but can see patterns emerge from information as more of it comes to light.

Unlike you, I'm not interested in committing the fallacy of dismissing what someone says by dismissing who they are.

The facts usually float to the top, sooner or later, if they aren't suppressed by those with an agenda.

When I read what you write, I smell agenda. :)

[Orrex]

54. Why don't you come clean and tell me what you're accusing me of, exactly?

And after you've done that, tell me how the voices that she hears are different from the voices that he hears.

So far you've repeated your unconvincing assertion again and again, bolstering your claim with anecdotal support. Sorry, but that's simply witnessing; it isn't an argument, and it isn't even convincing to anyone not already convinced.

Let me ask you this: do you think that the "psychic" is truly hearing non-schizophrenic voices? If so, then where do you think the voices come from? Beyond the grave?

Now that would be crazy.

[Psephos]

56. I haven't hidden anything to "come clean" about. It's all right there on the page.

I can't help you out if you don't understand the difference between the futuristic impressions a psychic claims to experience, and the delusional or even demonic voices a psychotic schizophrenic hears. You're on your own here. The network is your friend.

[Orrex]

59. I'm not taking issue with her "futuruistic impressions," whatever the hell those might be

Find me the post in which I made any claim about her "futuristic impressions." Go ahead, I'll wait.

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting to hear why you take Loughner's voices as proof of his schizophrenia but you don't hold her voices to the same standard.

[Psephos]

62. You're making a fool of yourself now.

Please go read the medical information of your choosing about how psychotic paranoid schizophrenics experience their delusions. It's canonically different from what clairvoyants experience. I've already offered a source, or find one yourself.

[Orrex]

65. A source for what, exactly?

To point out that "hearing voices" is often a sign of mental illness? I can find you dozens, if that's what you're seeking.

And what I'd like to see is your source that supports your "guess" that "what clairvoyants experience" is canonically different from schizophrenic delusion.

[originalpckelly]

38. Chances are that she doesn't even hear voices.

Basically, she's probably full of crap about that.

[Orrex]

40. You mean that a psychic might be... lying? Say it ain't so!

What's this world coming to?!?

[joshcryer]

61. As a kid I used to think I could see the future, being able to intutively know what was going...

...to happen. At one point in my early 20s I believed I was even a medium, though I heard no real voices. I became entranced with science and the scientific method at around that age, though, and realized that I was merely making really good educated guesses about things.

I still pull "has it not been foreseen?" as a joke with my family members, when something comes true that I have said.

[molly77]

64. IF we had a mental health system in the US , this boy would have

gotten help. You don't have to be psychic to see the signs. They were there at just the time that schizophrenia becomes evident. Late teens and early twenties.Reagan started emptying out our mental institutions and saying there would be community help. It would be more humane. The community help is a joke. There is no help.

[Odin2005]

3. So much for the posters still denying he is Schizophrenic.

[Orrex]

7. And this "psychic" hears voices too, right?

Hmm...

[LisaL]

8. Oh please.

Any proof that he actually met with this psychic?

[AnnieBW]

4. You don't need psychic abilities for that

He was, by all accounts, a scary dude.

[Fumesucker]

5. Reminds me of the time a psychic midget escaped from the local jail..

We had a small medium at large..

[The Magistrate]

12. That Is Priceless, Sir....

[AndyTiedye]

6. Only Kind of 'Help' He Could Afford, Most Likely

[spanone]

9. so we're down to a psychic diagnosing the killer?

[Sanity Claws]

10. So he did hear voices

This is the first time I heard this bit.
This is classic schizophrenia. I'll read the article to see if it discloses what he said he heard the voices say.

[laconicsax]

11. What? No article where an astrologer discusses Loughner's horoscope?

[LisaL]

13. I am sure its coming.

[lumberjack_jeff]

18. Stupid tea leaves.

When I consulted them all they said is renhguoL.

The person across the table from me was somewhat more impressed, but what does he know?

Pfft!

[Lisa0825]

20. Not saying I believe she is psychic, but let's just say she was observant....

he creeped her out... she got him to talk about voices, and she tried to impress upon him the importance of talking to a doctor by using the image of being imprisoned. I could believe all of that happened. It doesn't mean she is psychic. But if she was "playing" a psychic and he sought her out because of that, the rest of it could have transpired.

[LisaL]

22. I agree that it could have, but where is the evidence that

any of it actually did?

[Lisa0825]

30. I know. I am just saying it is possible. I'd believe it if the police confirmed. nt

[johnnie]

25. I agree

But you know how people are around here. If this was just a store clerk who said this people would be wondering why the clerk wasn't taken seriously when they went to the cops. They wouldn't be saying "oh yeah..a store clerk. Where's the proof?"

[LisaL]

44. So, in your scenario, if a store clerk came forward and said

"Five years ago Loughner came into my store,I "saw" in my mind that he was going to end up in prison, I went to the police but they didn't take me seriously," we'd be saying why didn't police take the clerk seriously? In what Universe?

[johnnie]

46. No

But if a store clerk said "He told me he heard voices" as this woman said.

[LisaL]

48. And then this clerk went to the police and police didn't take him seriously?

And we would be saying, WTF? Why didn't police take the clerk seriously? LOL.

[joshcryer]

57. Psychics are cons and they can pick up on abbrehent behavior really easily.

[AsahinaKimi]

24. Self delete

never mind.

[johnnie]

27. She did tell people

Including law enforcement.

[hobbit709]

28. Amazing how these "psychics" come out of the woodwork after the fact.

[Codeine]

29. "Look at me! Look at MEEE!" nt

[Lucian]

32. Psychics are always right after the fact, aren't they?

Stupid.

[originalpckelly]

33. Well, I think I believe her.

Phony con-artists have to have an innate ability to read people, I'd say that's all that they're good for really. I'd imagine you have to fly by the seat of your pants in such a scheme, and you probably do indeed learn how to read people. I do not think she hears voices.

It's just one criminal learning how to find out she's in the presence of another. I also do not believe she actually predicted he'd be in jail through anything but simple observation, something that many others might be able to see at some point.

[Duer 157099]

52. I just had a creepy thought

From the article:

"The last thing I told him before he was leaving, I said, 'You know, Jared, I'm usually not wrong. The first thing I saw for you were jail bars-- a jail cell, a uniform.' So I said, 'If it were me being a betting person, I would say that you should be very careful of your choices that you make in your life because I didn't see you standing at a podium lecturing people. I saw you in a jail cell."

What if this psychic actually planted the idea in his ill mind back in 2005, that he was destined for jail? What if this was a self-fulfilling prophecy?

[Blue-Jay]

66. Most grifters are good at sizing people up.