College Students. Do you care about your school's sports program?

[yellowwood]

I recently heard a program regarding the high price of many college athletic programs. The coaches get big money. The athletes get a free ride. The rest of the students have to pay high tuition.
When I get the alumni flyer from my university, three-quarters of it concerns sports programs. I wonder if who the adult alumni are that really care?
This concentration on sports drips down to the high schools where the high schools also pay a lot for athletics because the parents all think that their children will get scholarships to college. How many do?

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Nope and I got to see my program up close

it is a... fraud.

In fact, if the NFL wants Tripple A Teams, which is what these things functionally are... they should RUN THEM THEMSELVES.

School Athletics no longer has the function it should.

[kath]

25. I've been saying the same thing for years - make the NFL and the NBA run their OWN damned

minor league systems, like baseball does.

The mission of the university is supposed to be EDUCATION, not running minor league sports franchises. Let's get universities out of the sports business and back on track with their original mission.

[Confusious]

2. Nope, don't give a shit

Really don't care about any sports. Having a pro team is an economic black hole.

The business of a University should be teaching and research.

[pinboy3niner]

3. They spent millions on a new sports complex at the local JC...

...while cutting courses and laying off profs. :mad:

[Exultant Democracy]

4. The kids are getting a free ride with a big * too. Most of the big sports teams

don't really give their athletes time to be students too. I know athletes who are functionally illiterate that still get great passing grades, and that does them no favors after they graduate. The system is broken and it has been, but there are a lot of people getting rich so I doubt it will ever be fixed.

[petronius]

5. Many major programs will claim to be self-sustaining, but I suspect it's rarely true

As a faculty member I'm a bit divided on the topic - obviously, athletic programs are not the primary mission, and should be at the top of the budget-cutting list. On the other hand, they do help provide a sense of community and identity, and are a part of the overall experience. And, there may be a smidgen of truth to the notion that visible sports boost support for the entire university.

At my current school it seems that the students enjoy watching/having the sports programs, but I doubt they'd kick if it all disappeared. At my grad school (a major SEC university) there would have been blood on the quad if anyone had trifled with the athletics department...

[AsahinaKimi]

6. Did I hear correctly that Canadian Universities don't have

Sports teams? I seem to recall that, the last time I was up in Vancouver. As for Colleges and Universities here, if the NFL wants players from them, maybe they should support the Universities by donating large amounts of money.. Same for the NBA, Major League Baseball, and other Sports institutions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Nope and the ones that Mexican Universities

have, are NOT tied to the college athletics, intramural programs either. They ARE professional teams... PERIOD.

[JonLP24]

8. I believe University of Kentucky basketball

played an exhibition game against a Canadian university.

On edit-They played 2. University of Windsor and Western Ontario.

[onenote]

11. i don't think it is correct to say that Canadian Universities don't have sports teams

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Interuniversity_Sport

[AsahinaKimi]

14. Thanks for that

I guess my friend was wrong telling me that..

[Posteritatis]

22. Wait, what? Of course they do, often to a very annoying level. (nt)

[daleo]

33. Our universities have sports teams

But athletes don't get huge scholarships and they have to maintain respectable GPAs.

Games aren't huge events like they are in the U.S., though.

[Very_Boring_Name]

34. We have sports teams

[somone]

9. Taxpayer-subsidized feeder program for professional sports

It's a scam in many aspects

[Drale]

10. I would if my school had anything worth while

My sister goes to Eastern Illinois and they have a decent baseball program that I follow pretty closely. I agree that football and basketball especially have gotten way out of line, but what are you going to do they are money makers. Sports whether it be professional or college let us ignore the difficulties of real life at least for a little while, when I sit down to watch a Cubs, Bears or Hawks game, I don't have to think about anything else but that game.

[SharonAnn]

16. Very few sports teams are money makers. Ver, very few.

[Kalyke]

19. Sharon - our state's college team is a money-maker.

And not just for the school - when UT plays a home game, every single merchant in town gets a boost.

[taterguy]

23. How much money does it make?

Lots of college athletic teams rely on shady accounting.

So what are the figures?

[aikoaiko]

12. The worst part is much of the money in sports program are often protected from budget cuts

I hate that.

[tammywammy]

13. I go to a private university

They have track/cross country, soccer, baseball and softball for sports. That's is. The cross country/track run around campus. There's a soccer field and baseball/softball area. They are not super high tech fancy things either. I know they do give scholarships to the athletic students, but they also give out scholarships to regular students as well.

We had a 4% increase in tuition this year, but it had been 5 years since the school raised tuition. I think they've gotten a good handle on sports versus education.

[SharonAnn]

15. A college president (friend of mine) said that there are three things he/she must provide:

1. Parking for the faculty
2. Sex for the students
3. Sports for the alumni

So, despite what other "objectives" might be stated, he said that these are the only important ones.

[Nailzberg]

17. Cared as a student and now as an alumnus

I like sports. Like playing them, like watching them. And I cCare more about the college teams than I do the pro leagues.

[FLPanhandle]

42. I never got into pro sports either.

I love my college sports though.

[Kalyke]

18. Depends...

I live in Knoxville, TN, so the college football and basketball teams (including the women's team) are revered and followed closely - mainly because until very recently, there wasn't an in-state professional team. There is now a pro team in Nashville, but people still don't follow it as closely as they do the college team.

While I'm not a college student now, my activities fees allowed me to go to any game "free" (and, even with the $80 or so it was a semester - that's just $40 shy of what a football ticket cost in my day, so after two games, it was a savings) and I attended A LOT, so, yes, I cared about the sports programs then and now.

[hedgehog]

20. I couldn't care less about the sport program at my alma mater -

I'd rather see an effort to develop sports clubs on campus, and open popular physical ed classes to more students.

It's galling for me to get a mailing lauding the teams and begging donations when I know what my kids are being charged for tuition!

The only time I gave money was right after 9/11 when a fund was set up to pay for transportation for students facing family emergencies. Sad to say, I'm afraid that fund died a quick death.

[davsand]

21. Other than as an avenue to physical fitness I think all school sports oughtta go away.

I totally agree with sports in schools as a way to advocate for and teach lifetime activity. IF sports were treated as a way to relax and stay active it would be great, however, what we have now is a lot of seriously stupid shit with the "adults" acting like this is some kind of life and death stuff. By way of example, take a look at the sheer numbers involved in something basic like basketball.

You got all kinds of kids going out for the team early on--Jr High level for instance--and you get parents who show up and scream at the refs for making "bad" calls. Meanwhile some kids sit on a bench with no playing time in spite of how hard they work, and how dedicated they are to practice and learning about the game. At a fundamental level those kids are shut out straight away and the "good" ones are funneled on to the high school level. We started with maybe a couple dozen kids and ended up with maybe ten or so that actually felt ok about the Jr High ball experience.

At high school level you have less kids going out for the team--after all--you have to TRY OUT--you have to make the team. Straight away you have it established that it is ALL about the win loss record. You also have maintained that same stratification between the "athletes" and everyone else. So, you have the few--the best, mind you--out there "representing" a school district. You have even more impassioned adults yelling at the refs about calls, and you have all the expectation that the team will be well dressed because they represent the school! WE got cash for crap like sports trainers, weight trainers and new warm ups and uniforms, but fu-ged-about cash for stuff like an art program or that other foreign language teacher--because nobody REALLY needs to take any other foreign language except Spanish--right? Similarly, they don't really need too many English electives or any social science options. The ball team usually gets some special considerations when it comes to grades in classes because it would be just tragic if the best player was not able to play in the big game because he screwed up his Geometry test. Our society realizes the need for education at this level, but we still look the other way when it comes to our athletes.

And the parents form "booster clubs" to pay for anything the sports program needs...

How many kids are on the typical high school varsity basketball team? A couple dozen maybe?

How many of those couple dozen actually get a ride/scholarship to play college ball?

So, now we talk about college level basketball...

You have maybe a couple dozen that represent the university--right? There is no expense spared to keep that team supplied, dressed, medicated, and staffed. The players get special treatment in classes because it would be devastating to program to lose the kid getting a scholarship! That kid represents an investment by our school! That kid represents money to the sports program in either viewership, merchandising, or ticket sales. He may not be able to read worth a shit, and he may have graduated high school without ever being able to find the area of a square, but that kid is a HUGE cash cow, and a fine representative of our college...

Meanwhile, the profs face research budget cuts and the grad students are forced to start teaching even more sections of freshmen.

And of those kids on that team, how many will go on to successfully turn pro? A few, maybe.

School sponsored sports teams could vanish from this earth for all I care. They got jack to do with education and everything to do with people jerking themselves off that any of it matters.



Laura

[etherealtruth]

24. Its been a long time since I was a college student ....

but, I will tell you this: I didn't care then and as an alumna I do not care now>

[Odin2005]

26. Fuck no!

Our football team looses allmost every game, anyway! :rofl:

[RB TexLa]

27. Quite a few are self funding and generate revenue. Every LSU home football game has over an $8M

impact on Baton Rouge's economy.

[aaaaaa5a]

31. The U. of Texas football team brings in 70 million annually. NT

[mythology]

46. Actually that's not entirely the case

About 57% of football teams made money last year. To quote directly "Sixty-eight FBS schools reported turning a profit on football, with a median value of $8.8 million. The 52 FBS schools that lost money on football reported median losses of $2.7 million." Additionally given that only 14 athletic departments made money, there is very little actual profit coming from either men's basketball or the football teams.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5490686

That doesn't account for the creative accounting practices that are used to pull money from the general school revenues. When I was at the University of Colorado a few years ago there was a large student fee for new training facilities for the football team which was separate from the fee for other sports.

http://www.oregonlive.com/collegefootball/index.ssf/2009/10/new_ncaa_definitions_of_revenu.html

Also on the facilities front, the NCAA doesn't count the costs of building facilities as part of the athletic department budgets, nor does it account for upkeep or utilities.

http://www.collegecharlie.com/sportscosts.html

Nor does it account for the fact that monies donated to the athletic departments by boosters are tax deductible so they are subsidized by the taxpayers. Additionally there is no way to know what level of those donations would still be made to the universities without the athletic department.

This link also notes the fact that as a result of moving up to a new conference Cincinnati is having to increase student fees, tuition and give more from the general fund to cover the deficit.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2010-01-13-ncaa-athletics-subsidies_N.htm

Given that every other department on campuses are being pared down, there's no reason that athletics should be any different, especially when you consider that the department's resources are used by far fewer students, so each dollar per student is higher. Also the student athletes in the two big men's sports are generally of a lower academic level than the general student body (with some schools being notable exceptions like Stanford), this additionally detracts from a school's central mission of quality education.

[unc70]

28. Students certainly care here about UNC Tar Heels

Not just football or basketball, but in nearly forty sports, men and women.

Several thousand will attend women's volleyball, field hockey, lacrosse, ... Significant attendance at lots of sports.

While a long time since I was a student, I think the level of support at Carolina by students is as high as ever.

That said, many of us have been concerned at the changes in our football program over the last 5-6 years and are dismayed at recent scandals involving football players receiving illegal gifts and breaking the Honor Code with a tutor doing the work for her students.

But the UNC Tar Heels are one of the topic schools in sports revenue and in revenue from sales of licensed merchandise. The other ACC schools also have strong support from their students.

[aaaaaa5a]

29. Division. 1 football makes money

And it makes a ton of money…. millions of dollars.

For a major Division 1 school, football is profitable. That's why they pay the coaches so much money. Because if the team wins, it generates more money for the University. This is why there has been some talk that some scholarship athletes should be paid. For example if you are a star QB or RB at an SEC School, they are generating far more money for the University than what they are receiving in Scholarship programs. Its not even close. Football is big business.

Men's Basketball is profitable at some schools. (I'm talking about Division 1 here). But even at ACC schools like Duke, where basketball is king, basketball is not nearly as profitable as football. Still most quality Division 1 mens basketball programs will generate a profit for the University or College. And all of them are at least self sustaining.


Here's where the controversy comes in. Every other sport outside of football and men's basketball loses money. And it loses a ton of cash. In fact at most major Universities were it not for the football team and their tremendous profits, athletic departments would close. This is why Universities with dominate football programs like Ohio State and USC, offer so many other sports programs. The football team provides the cash for the other sports to operate.

Football not only provides revenue for the other sports, it is also very profitable for the University. Thus, lots of work is put into the football program. In fact in several States, the highest paid State employee is the head football coach. Money is all that counts. If the team wins, more money is made. The football coach is usually the top revenue generator for the University, thus his high salary. A good football coach who can consistently compete for a National Championship, is worth millions more than even the best teacher. I'm not saying I agree with this, but those are the facts.


This is very controversial and is why in some circles. a movement is growing that scholarship athletes should be paid. The amount of work football and in some cases basketball players put in, is far greater than what the "lesser" University sports and scholarship students require. There is more pressure. There is more competition. More is on the line. They are money generators for the University. And millions of dollars is at stake every time they take the field. Of course this issue is difficult because to a public that is largely unaware of how college athletics works, it's hard to justify paying scholarship athletes or offering extra incentives to "just the football team or "just the basketball team" and leave other scholarship athletes out, because their sports are not important to the bottom line of the University.


To answer the question… "Do you care about your school's program?"

The publics answer is simple. If we are talking about Division 1 schools…… football and basketball yes! Everything else loses money, and the public (including the student body) doesn't care about it.

[FLPanhandle]

43. I agree with everything here.

Even everything else besides football & basketball loses money, I still want my university to continue to fund them.

What people don't realize is there are a fair number of walk on's in those other sports. Many schools allow those of even average talent to participate in some capacity. It's a good experience for many kids.

[aaaaaa5a]

30. Sorry double post. NT

[Joe the Revelator]

32. Love it. I'm an adult alumni.

[yellowwood]

35. The Issue Is:

In these days of such high tuitions, often financed by huge loans, should students, most of whom are never involved in sports, pay for what is basically entertainment. And why should hard-working taxpayers have to help finance most of it?
It's not as though there's some loyalty to local players. Players come from all over. What does it mean when one's school team "wins?"

[FLPanhandle]

36. No longer a student, but I love my Gators

Did when I was there too.

Only a few sports are profitable. Most lose money. Almost all womens sports lose money. However, I still support the school funding all the programs. Titls IX is important.

I think you are wrong on HS sports. My daughters participate in swimming & track & cross-country. I know they'll never be good enough to earn a scholarship, but it's great to see them learning to work in a team, compete, and set/exceed their personal goals. It also is a big social boost for them.

[aaaaaa5a]

37. Good post.

But i never like to use the argument that women's sports don't generate any money. While true, it wrongly frames the debate as a gender or Title IX issue. The truth is like I said in my other post, outside of football and men's basketball all other MENS SPORTS also lose money. For instance, men's track and field loses money just like women's basketball does. I have never come across one men's college baseball team in the country that generated money. College baseball and Women's softball are in the same boat.


The issue is football and men's basketball verse EVERYTHING ELSE. All women's sports and the overwhelming majority of mens sports don't generate revenue and would have difficulty even fielding teams without the cash from football.


What will be interesting to see is if the U.Conn women's basketball team could became a self sustaining sports program. So far they are not, but at this point they might be close. While sports is generally not a well researched topic on this board, if the UConn women's basketball program could become self sustaining, that would be a monumental achievement for women's sports. This would be the first time ever for a major women's college program. And it would represent social change in the right direction.

[lonestarnot]

38. Fuck no.

[B Calm]

39. Hell yes I do!

[Shrek]

40. I checked with my son who's a college sophomore

He said he loves going to games and considers it a vital component of his university experience.

FWIW.

[fishwax]

41. yes, and I have friends and relatives who might not have been able to go to college w/o them

I'm a big fan of college sports, including the non-revenue generating sports like softball and wrestling and gymnastics and so on.

And I think high school sports are a good thing too, even for kids who don't get scholarships.

Certainly it's true that people's (and institution's) priorities are sometimes out of whack, but sports also do a lot of good for individuals and communities.

[aaaaaa5a]

44. I just read in Sports Illustrated...

that last year the University of Texas' Football team grossed more than 98 million dollars. The profit for the University after all expenses in regard to the football team were paid, totaled more than 68 million dollars.

[mikiturner]

45. I don't doubt it

90000 (fans) X $40 (ticket)=$3.6 million
x 6 home games
____________


$21.6 million (estimated)

That's just for gate receipts. Doesn't include parking/concessions. Then we've got clothing sales. And then we've got those lucrative TV contracts. And bowl game payouts.