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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 04:47 PM
Original message
"Baby Doc returned to a hero's welcome" from NPR
Sorry, guys. I'm mostly keeping my updates in my other thread but the spin in this article hurt my eyes, knocked me off my pins, or something. That it's from NPR makes it more heinous to me. This is also in my other thread but I decided this needed its own place as well. Ewwww.

<snip>

Amidst chanting for Jean-Claude Duvalier, Sanon says young people want to be able to go back to school.

Robinson Marquis, who was standing nearby, said Baby Doc was Haiti's last great president.

"Since he left the country, we have no country," says 35-year-old Marquis. "When he come back, we going to have an army and a country and the country going to be beautiful again, like way back since he left in 1986."

<snip>

But on Sunday, Baby Doc returned to a hero's welcome, he was given an entourage of Haitian National Police for security and he appeared briefly on the balcony of an upscale hotel as a free man waving to a mob of supporters and journalists below.


http://www.npr.org/2011/01/17/133001394/former-exile-baby-doc-lands-in-haiti-amid-praise

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. A 'hero's welcome?' !! Feel like I'm at a Mad Hatter Tea Party
This whole thing is crazy

Thanks for all the updates
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Bad enough some have used 1984 as a guidebook, now
we're using "Alice in Wonderland"? OW!

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. He should have been met by cops with an arrest warrant
Wasn't he told that if he ever tried to return, he'd stand trial for his crimes? :wtf:
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. A source close to 'baby doc' said there was no warrant.
I've another thread going where I'm trying to contain the updates. The link is in that if you'd like to read it. Though considering the source...

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. Thanks for your work
I've been following your posts.

The first thing that occurred to me was that he must have been given some guarantees to even consider returning.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Glad to help. Thanks for letting me know you were following.
I think I'm starting to get punchy. I'm sitting watching the tweets about 'baby doc.' There's something in there about someone name Kim Kardashin that has me amused and confused. LOL

Okay...I'm seriousing up again. :)

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. LOL!
That's perfectly understandable.

I was working with a volunteer group in the '80s, and we used to call our president "Papa Doc" and "President for Life," lol!

Hang in there--you're doing good work. :thumbsup:
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. To his/her face?
Well, I've just learned that 'papa doc' is no longer "trending" and one reason given for him being there is to clean up the mess after sarah palin's visit and yet another tweet was an FYI directed at sarah palin letting her know that 'baby doc' was not a pediatrician.

I lied when I said I was seriousing up. I extended my break. :D

Thanks for the kind words. :)

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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Palin thinking 'Baby Doc' is a pediatrician?
That's priceless! :rofl:

That has to rank way up there in Palin jokes.

You're still doing good work--your humor breaks only make it better. :)
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. And some sick humor...
Former Pres."Baby Doc" Duvalier returns to Haiti after 25 yrs. This is good news: means there's something left to loot.


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. When he returned...
...I was wondering if he brought the money back. But even if he did, it would not make up for his crimes against the Haitian people, and against humanity.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. !!!
:puke:
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. How can this be possible.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Well, Saddam did 9/11 in our media, and he had WMD
and Chavez resigned and Zelaya was trying to stay in office illegally and Afghanistan had a democratic election.

What is your problem? :P
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Spinning for all they're worth. :( n/t
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chelsea0011 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. What's your poison? Complete anarchy and mob rule or a brutal dictator
who could bring stability with his own brutality. And the reason he came in safely is that there is no police presence that could be bothered arresting him. And the central government is so weak that he could actually start running things? Amazing.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. And it appears he has the support of the business community.
No word yet from world governments...that I have found.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Um, a good start would be allowing the democratically elected president of Haiti
Edited on Mon Jan-17-11 05:32 PM by EFerrari
to return.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Dictators rise from chaos
and to see NPR enabling the propaganda at all is discouraging.
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. Not good. He's there for the $$ that
no one seems to be able to use to get it together!!
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. There are some assets that were seized which may make it back to
Haiti, as well.

It appears he may have beat "his" money home.

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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. i read there were about 2000 people at the airport..population approx. 10,000,000
Edited on Mon Jan-17-11 05:37 PM by spanone
not an overwhelming endorsement
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. The only numbers I've read so far have been a couple of hundred
and 'hundreds.' We'll see how much larger they grow as the reporting continues.

I also read another in which they reported his motorcade (my word, not theirs) drove through and upscale neighborhood to wave to his 'friends' and announce his return.

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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. i read that in an early report this am. your numbers are probably closer to the truth
i can't find that report now. so it was probably taken down.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I was just wondering if I should be taking screen shots rather
than just providing links.

I wonder how the narrative will evolve over the coming days.

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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. the possibilities are frightening...this is just wrong.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. I just found one using "thousands." I may have missed it earlier.
Others are still saying hundreds including CBS; take that for what it's worth.

The one using thousands is a Miami Herald article; it also includes mention of pepper spray and tanks.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/16/2019209/newspaper-ousted-president-jean.html

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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. screw npr,

pretty much
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CC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. Many of the younger people
either were not born or have little to no memory of how things really were under Baby Doc. When they compare the now (post earthquake) to what they hear of the then, then doesn't look so bad. He knows this so took his chance on coming back. The silence from other governments is alarming.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. In fairness, the "silence" from other governments might just be my bad
search and internet skills.

:)

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CC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Good to know. Thanks. n/t
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. That reminds me, if you find any reports or responses from any world
gov'ts, would you mind popping a link over in my "main" thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x215771

That way, even if I get bogged down and miss something, it'll still be in front of DUers.

:hi:

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Doubtful he could return without permission from State. n/t
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. No doubt about it. And I think we're talking about a lot more than permission.
No way the U.S. was going to let Haiit "fall" to democracy, reject that filthy arranged election and bring back their legit president Aristide.

Honduras is the template.

I don't know why my gorge bothers to rise up any more, at Obama/Clinton/Panetta policy in Latin America, but it does.

:puke:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. I thought Haiti was the template for Honduras.
It's good to be around people with memories that work. :grouphug:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #34
48. You have a point. But then there's John Negroponte's Honduras, and well,
you could telescope back quite a long ways, on U.S. horrors in Haiti and Honduras alone, one following the next, following the next, all the way to Thomas Jefferson's abandonment of Haiti after the slave rebellion. (I do love Jefferson, kind of the way I love Hamlet or Oedipus--tragically flawed heroes committing soul-searing mistakes that WE can see clearly and they cannot. And I know it was complicated by France, but still...)

I was referring to the RECENT manifestation of horrible U.S. policy with THIS U.S. government. First, Honduras. Now this. "Baby Doc" wouldn't be there if the U.S. didn't want him to be, and it's to punish Haitians for their rejection of the phony election. If they won't bend over for U.S. democracy cosmetics, like they're supposed to, then they get--not who they want, not who they really elected, before the U.S. threw him out--Aristide--but a heinous, bloody-handed fascist.

Lula da Silva was right. Nothing has changed in U.S. policy in Latin America. However, Latin America has certainly changed when a Latin American leader feels free to say such a thing. We have Chavez to thank for that, and I know Lula da Silva does.

It'll be interesting to see what goes down about this. Dilma Rousseff surely won't want another Honduras. Isn't Brazil the main UN peacekeeping force in Haiti? And do you have any knowledge of the U.S. military posture in Haiti?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #48
55. I thought the Brazilians were running the UN forces but I'm not sure
if theirs is the largest force there.

The US made a big deal of pulling out of Haiti shortly after the quake but you know what, I haven't checked back to see. There was a lot of battering around the head and shoulders for objecting to the militarization of the earthquake and I was told my Navy dad should disown me.

But, that's a good call. We could check on that.

It may be that Baby Doc was brought back to illustrate a worse outcome than working out this farce of an election. If you look at him closely, he looks a little bit more healthy than Cheney, not like someone pumped up to take the helm.

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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. Natl Propaganda Radio...
1,000 piles of puke all over you, and your "underwriters"!

People, don't give to public radio.... donate your dollars to Democracy Now!
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
41. +100
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
49. You said it, MrMickeysMom! Worse than the Associated Pukes, because of their snotty attitude! nt
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
22. I guess the billions the Duvaliers stole are all forgiven now.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. It seems that much has been "forgotten" now.
Sad. But that appears to be part of the issue.

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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
29. Twinge of nausea here, at reading that title.
"beautiful again"? Holy crap.
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jimlup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
32. How can they not arrest him?
Honestly, the government in Haiti must be incredibly weak.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
33. There is a report that I can't confirm that UN troops are using pepper spray
on the press. The tweet resolves to here and I'm not familiar with this org:

http://tweetbe.at/non-profits/trending/1mnyJ-doc

I don't know what to make of it yet.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I've got a Miami Herald article that says something similar. Oh, and tanks.
In the chaos at the airport, national police used pepper spray and pointed their weapons at journalists to keep them away from the terminal. The United Nations, which has a peacekeeping force in Haiti, sent tanks to help keep order.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/16/2019209/newspaper-ousted-president-jean.html#ixzz1BL9mCqT0

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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
38. Reminds me of when Peron returned to Argentina
Never underestimate the power of nostalgia, or the inability of one generation to pass on the truth to a younger generation.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
42. The news in the Haitian community is that Aristide will be landing in two days
Please bear in mind this is a rumor. The person who told me is dead certain but who knows.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Oh, heavens. Is that good or bad? I mean due to the fact that it
will definitely draw any lines not already drawn.

Thanks for the update even if only a rumor. His lawyer said he wanted to return. The US said it hadn't heard of any plans for his return; but as I've noted elsewhere, according to the US they didn't know 'baby doc' was returning either.

Heaven help Haiti and its people. If anyone reading doesn't believe in heaven or whatever, please insert your appropriate word or phrase.

I'm rooting for the Haitian people.



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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Take it with a grain of salt. This came from a Haitian friend who's pretty
well informed. She said she heard it definitively from 2 people. I have no idea what to think.

Personally I like Aristide and would be delighted if he went back. She hates him because she comes from a moneyed family and won't accept that her way of life was subsidized by people's suffering. The business community would make war on him.

I'm rooting with you, for people everywhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drlpkQTPr0Y
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. I fear for my blood pressure given all the "grains of salt" I'm having to
take during this time. :)

The rumors are starting to go fast and furious online now. It's slowed me down since I'm not sure what is which.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. As to legitimacy, it's good--re Haitian democracy, sovereignty and independence.
The Bush Junta thugs thew him out. He was the elected president--elected with a big mandate. It is also good as to social policy. Aristide has ever been the advocate of the poor majority.

But the arrival of "Baby Doc"--which cannot have occurred without U.S. facilitation (no matter what they're saying publicly or in low security cables)--means that the Obama administration will not back the legitimate, elected president and is stoking a civil war instead. Honduras is the template. This administration is carrying out a policy of subjugating Central America and the Caribbean to U.S. multinational corporate/war profiteer interests, with Colombia as the main fascist anchor on the southern rim of this "circle the wagons" area. They are in a battle with the independent countries in this region--those with leftist governments--Venezuela, Nicaragua, Cuba and some of the smaller island countries, with the leftist governments of El Salvador and Guatemala getting severely pressured by the U.S. not to ally with these ALBA countries. Aristide could ally with ALBA. He would be inclined toward independence and certainly toward the social justice policies of the ALBA countries. The U.S.--or rather, the multinational corporate/war profiteer players who are calling the shots on U.S. policy--prefer to work with fascist governments and actively seek installation of fascist leaders, using our tax dollars for this purpose. THEY must think that "Baby Doc" can deliver the slave labor force that they want and will welcome "war on drugs" war profiteering as well. They likely orchestrated this in anticipation of Aristide returning--to prevent Aristide's peaceful return to his rightful position. Aristide could have pulled the country together. He has majority support. He is very popular. He was illegally and wrongfully deprived of his office (--a frigging Blackwater operation!). So, clearly, the U.S. does NOT want, and will not permit, the peaceful pulling of the country together under Aristide. They are fostering a bloodletting INSTEAD and will be operating--most likely sneakily--to insure that the fascists win. That's how I'm seeing this. It is dreadful.
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Thank you. And thanks for all the additional information and
succinct evaluation of the overall situation.

Aristides party is also the one that was recently not allowed to participate in the elections. Another of the election "discrepancies" I've read about.

I'm still waiting to find an official US response. Up to now it's consisted of a tweet which was later made light of as of little consequence.

Canada's government has condemned his return. I think I've got links to all of that in the other thread. I'm trying to keep the "reporting" all in one place.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. And thank YOU for your work on this at DU! I'll go to your other thread and catch up! nt
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-11 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. The best way I know to learn about a situation is research it and
share what I've "learned."

:)

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