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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:24 PM
Original message
Is the economy to blame for increased popularity of violent porn?
i think that as men are losing their role as "sole bread winner" they are feeling lost and lashing out at the women in their lives (who they can actually still have power over) as opposed to the people who are making the middle class dissapear and making the poor poorer.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nah. Men beat up on women, because women are smaller. nt
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. And because male culture tolerates it
since it keeps us all in line.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. First, let's see the solid scientific evidence for an "increased popularity of violent porn"
I call BS.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. . . .
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. it could be an access thing
you and i both know that we have more acess to porn today than 20 years ago.

if violent porn is popular has it always been?

is popularity constant or does it flux?

whether it is increasing or not what attracts certain men to violent porn? why are some men excited by rape, incest, violence (you have seen the links to this kind of stuff on the net)
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. That changes the premise of your OP
You're going on assumptions, not evidence.
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AngkorWot Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. It's also working the assumption that it's violent, angry men who consume violent porn.
That's the same logic that says D&D players are satan worshipers.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. porn dude who isnt gonna lie to you cause he is all girlie.
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/freelance/pornography&cruelty.htm
Sopornos IV is a 2003 release from VCA Pictures, one of the high-end companies that produces for what the industry calls the couples market. The plot is a takeoff on the popular HBO series about mobsters. In #4, mob boss Bobby Soporno is obsessed with the thought that everyone in his life is always having sex, including his crew and his daughter. In the final sex scene his wife has sex with two of his men. After the standard progression through oral and vaginal sex, one of the men prepares to penetrate her anally. She tells him: That fucking cock is so fucking huge. Spread fucking ass. Spread it open. He penetrates her. Then she says, in a slightly lower tone, Dont go any deeper, and she seems to be in pain. At the end of the scene, she begs for their semen (Two cocks jacking off in my face. I want it.), opens her mouth, and the men ejaculate onto her at the same time.

Two in the Seat #3 is a 2003 release from Red Light District that consists of six separate scenes in which two men have sex with one woman, culminating in double-penetration (d.p.), in which the woman is penetrated vaginally and anally at the same time. In one scene, 20-year-old Claire, her hair in pigtails, says she has been in the industry for three months. Asked by the off-camera interviewer what will happen in the scene, she replies, Im here to get pounded. The two men who then enter the scene begin a steady stream of insults, calling her a dirty, nasty girl, a little fucking cunt, a little slut. After the standard progression of oral and vaginal sex, she asks one to Please put your cock in my ass. During the double-penetration on the floor, her vocalizations sound pained. Shes braced against the couch, moving very little. The men spank her, and her buttock is visibly red. One man asks, Are you crying? which leads to this exchange:

One of the 10 scenes in the film begins with a woman and man having a picnic in a park. He jokes about wanting to use the romantic moment to make love to her mouth, and then stands and thrusts into her mouth while she sits on the blanket. Two other men who walk by join in. Saying things such as Pump that face, pump that fucking face, All the way down, choke, choke, and Thats real face fucking, they hold her head and push harder. One man grabs her hair and pulls her head into his penis in what his friend calls the jackhammer. At this point she is grimacing and seems in pain. She then lies on the ground, and the men approach her from behind. Eat that whole fucking dick. You little whore, you like getting hurt, one says, as her face is covered with saliva. Do you like getting your face fucked? one asks. She cant answer. Open your mouth if you like it, he says, and she opens her mouth. After they all ejaculate into her mouth, the semen flows out onto her body. After the final ejaculation, she reaches quickly for the wine glass, takes a large drink, and looks up at her boyfriend, and says, God, I love you baby. Her smile fades to a pained look of shame and despair.


This analysis is not news to the industry. As Jerome Tanner put it during a pornography directors roundtable discussion featured in Adult Video News, People just want it harder, harder, and harder, because like Ron said, what are you gonna do next? Another director, Jules Jordan, was blunt about his task: ne of the things about todays porn and the extreme market, the gonzo market, so many fans want to see so much more extreme stuff that Im always trying to figure out ways to do something different. But it seems everybody wants to see a girl doing a d.p. now or a gangbang. For certain girls, thats great, and I like to see that for certain people, but a lot of fans are becoming a lot more demanding about wanting to see the more extreme stuff. Its definitely brought porn somewhere, but I dont know where its headed from there.

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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. Do you have some sort of cite to evidence?
I've been online a lot and never seen violent porn.

But then I don't go looking for it.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. going off an idea in another thread
if you think about sheer access alone it would make sense that porn in general is more viewn today than say 20 years ago just because the net exists. so all categories would be more popular than in past times.

now would violence on women go up during hard economic times? i was just wondering.


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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Probably, more stress in the family for sure. Financial stress can kill a relationship..
Or so I've heard....
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AngkorWot Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. Increased rates of college graduation. Intellectuals love violent porn.
I have absolutely no way of validating that comment, but I figured that if you're just make stuff up I might as well too.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. Define "violent porn."
Because some people here use it as a catchall to describe all (heterosexual) porn.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. rape, incest, brutal porn categories
which many of us who look at non violent porn see the links to from most porn web sites
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. "which many of us who look at non violent porn see the links to from most porn web sites"
Oh, snap.

I guess we can do away with the song and dance about how invisible and fringe that stuff is.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. this is the ambiguousness of the argument. we know the subjective, demeaning, violent porn
Edited on Fri Nov-11-11 09:22 PM by seabeyond
is a Dav, and to be told

no, really, not so

not buying it.

you see it all the time. does that tell you something, whether you go to it or not, personally
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SixthSense Donating Member (251 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. It sure is
the staff of the SEC has been busier than ever!
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
13. Could be...
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. There's a giant unsupported assertion behind that question.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. That assumes the popularity of violent porn is actually increasing.
A lot of guys who view porn absolutely hate the violent stuff precisely because it's so vile.
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. Read Chris Hedges' Empire of Illusion - several chapters are devoted to
the porn industry and its clients. Women in the porn are subjected to violence and degraded during the production, the story that is being filmed may not be violent but the conditions women work under are.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. That's exactly why the amateur stuff is growing in popularity.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. and a lot more guys love it.
I am not suggesting that in every scene in mainstream pornography such expressions of pain are evident. And I acknowledge that I cannot know exactly what the women in these films were feeling, physically or emotionally. I do not presume to speak for them, or for women in pornography, or for women in general. But her is what Belladonna, one of the women who appeared in Two in the Seat #3, told a television interviewer about such scenes: You have to really prepare physically and mentally for it. I mean, I go through a process from the night before. I stop eating at 5:00. I do, you know, like two enemas. The next morning I dont eat anything. Its so draining on your body. Womens experiences no doubt vary, but Belladonnas experience hardly seems idiosyncratic.

However, it is not necessary to reach definitive conclusions about the degree of pain women experience in such scenes to make one important observation. In these scenes, all three women at some point clearly appeared to a viewer to be in pain. Their facial expressions and voices conveyed that what was being done to them was causing physical discomfort and/or fear and/or distress. Given the ease with which video can be edited, why did the producers not edit out those expressions? There are two possible answers. One, they may view these kinds of expressions of pain by the women as of no consequence to the viewers interest, and hence of no consequence to the goal of maximizing sales; womens pain is neutral. The second possibility is that the producers have reason to believe that viewers like the expressions of pain; womens pain helps sales.

Given that the vast majority of those who will rent or buy these tapes are men, from that we can derive this question: Why do some men find the infliction of pain on women during sexual activity either (1) not an obstacle to their ability to achieve sexual pleasure or (2) a factor that can enhance their sexual pleasure? Phrased differently: Why are some men so callous and cruel sexually?

By that, I dont mean to ask why are men capable of being cruel in some general sense. All humans have the capacity to be cruel toward other humans and other living things, and we all have done cruel things in our lives, myself included. Contemporary mainstream heterosexual pornography raises the question: Why do some men find cruelty to women either sexually neutral or sexually pleasurable?

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/freelance/pornography&cruelty.htm

________________

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
20. love you dude, but really... this is a huge ass... duh. that is what i and many women are saying
Edited on Fri Nov-11-11 09:28 PM by seabeyond
i tell my nieces, honestly, from the heart, as much as i love you all and my boys, if this is what male is offering me when i was looking for a hubby, i would just. say. no. thank you.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
23. Why do you think violent porn is increasing in popularity?
I did not think there was an adequately accurate statistics to base than upon.

While porn is clearly becoming more acceptable and diversifying, I am not sure the data exists to define market trends and what is driving it.

Then there is the question of what constitutes "violent porn". Like porn itself, a viable definition of "I know it when I see it" is hard to come by.

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. "childified porn"...in 2006, an increase of more than 60% since 2004.
The book documents the recent history of porn, including the technological shifts that have made it accessible on mobile phones, videogames and laptops. According to Dines's research the prevalence of porn means that men are becoming desensitised to it, and are therefore seeking out ever harsher, more violent and degrading images. Even the porn industry is shocked by how much violence the fans want, she says; at the industry conferences that Dines attends, porn makers have increasingly been discussing the trend for more extreme practices. And the audience is getting younger. Market research conducted by internet providers found that the average age a boy first sees porn today is 11; a study from the University of Alberta found that one third of 13-year-old boys admitted viewing porn; and a survey published by Psychologies magazine in the UK last month found that a third of 14- to 16-year-olds had first seen sexual images online when they were 10 or younger 81% of those polled looked at porn online at home, while 63% could easily access it on their mobile phones.

"I have found that the earlier men use porn," says Dines, "the more likely they are to have trouble developing close, intimate relationships with real women. Some of these men prefer porn to sex with an actual human being. They are bewildered, even angry, when real women don't want or enjoy porn sex."

*

Images have now become so extreme that acts that were almost non-existent a decade ago have become commonplace. From studying thousands of porn films and images Dines found that the most popular acts depicted in internet porn include vaginal, oral and anal penetration by three or more men at the same time; double anal; double vaginal; a female gagging from having a penis thrust into her throat; and ejaculation in a woman's face, eyes and mouth.

*

As a result of her research, Dines believes that pornography is driving men to commit particular acts of violence towards women. "I am not saying that a man reads porn and goes out to rape," she says, "but what I do know is that porn gives permission to its consumers to treat women as they are treated in porn." In a recent study, 80% of men said that the one sex act they would most like to perform is to ejaculate on a woman's face; in 2007, a comment stream on the website Jezebel.com included a number of women who said that, on a first date, they had, to their surprise, experienced their sexual partner ejaculating on their faces without asking.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jul/02/gail-dines-pornography
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Given the paupacity of meaningful statistics, Dines and others mostly seem to be guessing
They can say that more extreme acts are becoming more commonplace, but given the massive increase fueled by amateurs which is clearly unquantified, do they have the basis for saying it is more popular?

Their assumptions mix content with distribution methods. That clips featuring such things are more available does not mean there it has increased market share or that there is more of it being made. It just means that it is more accessible.

Not taking a position on if their overall conclusions are correct or not, but their claims from a numbers side seems a bit shaky.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. ya...
damn we cannot get exactly the info someone requires to be able to see maybe, possibly there is an issue. doesnt matter what is given, there is always a reason to ignore info. how about a man in the trade making the shit.

This analysis is not news to the industry. As Jerome Tanner put it during a pornography directors roundtable discussion featured in Adult Video News, People just want it harder, harder, and harder, because like Ron said, what are you gonna do next? Another director, Jules Jordan, was blunt about his task: ne of the things about todays porn and the extreme market, the gonzo market, so many fans want to see so much more extreme stuff that Im always trying to figure out ways to do something different. But it seems everybody wants to see a girl doing a d.p. now or a gangbang. For certain girls, thats great, and I like to see that for certain people, but a lot of fans are becoming a lot more demanding about wanting to see the more extreme stuff. Its definitely brought porn somewhere, but I dont know where its headed from there.

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/freelance/pornography&cruelty.htm
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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
27. Is violent porn really more popular?
I haven't seen a lot of it around.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. the gonzo genre started pushing the boundaries into things like double-penetrations and gag-inducing
Lets start with that phrase. By mainstream heterosexual pornography I mean the videos and DVDs that are widely available in the United States today, marketed as sexually explicit (what is commonly called hardcore), rented and purchased primarily by men, depicting sex primarily between men and women. The sexual activity is not simulated; these videos are a record of sex between the performers. What happens on the screen happened in the world.

This analysis is based primarily on three qualitative studies of pornographic videos I have conducted since 1996. I use the term mainstream to describe the tapes because I excluded what many would consider the non-representative fringe of the pornography market -- bondage and sadomasochistic tapes; any tape that advertised explicit violence, urination, or defecation; and child pornography (the only material clearly illegal everywhere in the United States). There is no shortage of such material in this country -- in shops, through the mail, on the internet, or underground (in the case of child pornography) -- but I passed over all of that. Instead, I visited stores that sold adult product (the industrys preferred term) and asked clerks and managers to help me select the most commonly rented and purchased tapes. I wanted to avoid the common accusation that feminist critics of pornography pick out the worst examples, the most violent material, to critique. In one of the stores I visited, the section from which I rented tapes is actually labeled mainstream.

What I describe here is not an aberration. These tapes are broadly representative of the 11,303 new hardcore titles that were released in 2002, according to the Adult Video News, the industrys trade magazine. They are the mainstream of a pornography industry with an estimated $10 billion in annual sales. They are what brothers and fathers and uncles are watching, what boyfriends and husbands are watching. And, in many cases, what boy children are watching.

Here is a sample from my 2003 research, starting with the so-called couples market, the tapes the industry says it makes to appeal not just to men but to women. These films, sometimes called features, typically have a minimal plot line and make attempts, no matter how badly executed, at character development. From there, Ill move to gonzo, films that have no pretense of narrative and simply present sexual activity, sometimes shot POV (from the point of view of the man engaging in sex).

Sopornos IV is a 2003 release from VCA Pictures, one of the high-end companies that produces for what the industry calls the couples market. The plot is a takeoff on the popular HBO series about mobsters. In #4, mob boss Bobby Soporno is obsessed with the thought that everyone in his life is always having sex, including his crew and his daughter. In the final sex scene his wife has sex with two of his men. After the standard progression through oral and vaginal sex, one of the men prepares to penetrate her anally. She tells him: That fucking cock is so fucking huge. Spread fucking ass. Spread it open. He penetrates her. Then she says, in a slightly lower tone, Dont go any deeper, and she seems to be in pain. At the end of the scene, she begs for their semen (Two cocks jacking off in my face. I want it.), opens her mouth, and the men ejaculate onto her at the same time.

Two in the Seat #3 is a 2003 release from Red Light District that consists of six separate scenes in which two men have sex with one woman, culminating in double-penetration (d.p.), in which the woman is penetrated vaginally and anally at the same time. In one scene, 20-year-old Claire, her hair in pigtails, says she has been in the industry for three months. Asked by the off-camera interviewer what will happen in the scene, she replies, Im here to get pounded. The two men who then enter the scene begin a steady stream of insults, calling her a dirty, nasty girl, a little fucking cunt, a little slut. After the standard progression of oral and vaginal sex, she asks one to Please put your cock in my ass. During the double-penetration on the floor, her vocalizations sound pained. Shes braced against the couch, moving very little. The men spank her, and her buttock is visibly red. One man asks, Are you crying? which leads to this exchange:

*

I am not suggesting that in every scene in mainstream pornography such expressions of pain are evident. And I acknowledge that I cannot know exactly what the women in these films were feeling, physically or emotionally. I do not presume to speak for them, or for women in pornography, or for women in general. But her is what Belladonna, one of the women who appeared in Two in the Seat #3, told a television interviewer about such scenes: You have to really prepare physically and mentally for it. I mean, I go through a process from the night before. I stop eating at 5:00. I do, you know, like two enemas. The next morning I dont eat anything. Its so draining on your body. Womens experiences no doubt vary, but Belladonnas experience hardly seems idiosyncratic.

*

This analysis is not news to the industry. As Jerome Tanner put it during a pornography directors roundtable discussion featured in Adult Video News, People just want it harder, harder, and harder, because like Ron said, what are you gonna do next? Another director, Jules Jordan, was blunt about his task: ne of the things about todays porn and the extreme market, the gonzo market, so many fans want to see so much more extreme stuff that Im always trying to figure out ways to do something different. But it seems everybody wants to see a girl doing a d.p. now or a gangbang. For certain girls, thats great, and I like to see that for certain people, but a lot of fans are becoming a lot more demanding about wanting to see the more extreme stuff. Its definitely brought porn somewhere, but I dont know where its headed from there.

http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/freelance/pornography&cruelty.htm
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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Your long diatribe doesn't answer my question
I have no doubt such stuff exists. My question was to its popularity.

Then again I don't look at much what's generically called porn. As a straight male I enjoy the sight of an attractive female be she in a state of dress or undress. However I've never understood the appeal of watching others have sex.

In my opinion one is more inclined to see the compination of sex and violence in an R rated slasher flick. It's common in these films to see a couple murdered while in the act of having sex.

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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. it wasnt mine, it was the industry. you asked the question. nt
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