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Three Debate Gaffes that were worse than Perry's 'mind freeze' gaffe.

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 11:11 PM
Original message
Three Debate Gaffes that were worse than Perry's 'mind freeze' gaffe.
A rare combination of bad stomach, Veterans Day and unscheduled holdover weekend in El Paso has sentenced me to a Motel 6 with no MSNBC. Normally dont have time to keep up with DU except for a couple minutes a day so offer this observation on the Republican Debate as a slender tether to sanity in a week with multiple calamities including losing a smart phone that wasnt smart enough not to get misplaced.


The Three Debate Gaffes that dwarf Perrys mind freeze gaffe.


Since (Half Governor) Palin lifted the already high Gaffe Ceiling of the Republican Party taking it from the already celestial levels of GWB outward past the rings of Saturn the current clown car Republican presidential field has blown through that ceiling lifting it to heights that can only be observed with assistance of the Hubble telescope.

No longer able to experience the mind numbing idiocy of the Republican Gaffe Cornucopia (Gaffecopia?), I wait for the excerpts afterward.

This time I saw three short clips plus Perrys mind freeze which seems an odd characterization because it suggest that the famous 53 seconds is somehow distinguished from the rest of the time that Perrys mind/mouth are in operation. That is a highly debatable assumption.

Any discussion of Republican Gaffes must be strictly limited.

Without time and context restrictions a limitless discussion would absorb all our time not spent sleeping.

For example GOP Joe crazy man Walshs rant was such a wild event that it spread throughout the English speaking world. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2059294/Joe-Walsh-meltdown-video-Illinois-congressman-says-dont-blame-banks-p---off.html . While his behavior and comments about banks were universally noted as major gaffes the central talking point that the GOP uses on a daily basis is even more absurd.


Walsh was repeating the daily mantra of the GOP that government regulation creates inefficiency and distortions and eliminating government regulation will increase productivity, jobs and wealth.


This is a kind of daily Republican Gaffe that is said so often that many believe that if not completely true then it has an element of truth to it.

There is no truth to it.

If the premise that government is the main problem and that unfettered natural markets are the solution then would the GOP please explain why countries like Somalia that have no regulation and are governed by local religiously pious elders are excruciatingly poor and countries that have massive regulation, like Switzerland and Germany, are among the richest countries in the world?

Smart regulation begets prosperity. Sometimes there are outdated or poorly considered regulations. If the regulations are no longer optimum change them.

The logic of the GOP Gaffecopia runs like this:
Sometimes there is botulism in food, therefore we should eliminate food in order to eliminate botulism.

Ironically Hong Kong, the ultimate example of no government restriction, no taxes, free markets declared that today they officially have entered the recession.

So ubiquitous is the cacophony of GOP Gaffes that we have to narrow the discussion or it will never end.

This discussion will be limited to the three brief clips I saw from the debate, all of which demonstrated much greater Gaffes in their scope, span, depth, and damage to public thinking than Perrys mind freeze.

1) Gingrichs Gaffe


We start with Gingrich because he is the smart one, the college professor, the expert in history.



Here is the 35 word clip of the smart college history professor.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45232734/page/6/

Historically, this is the richest country in the history of the world because corporations succeed in creating both profits and jobs, and it's sad that the news media doesn't report accurately how the economy works.



This isnt just stupidity. This is an aggressive no holds World Wide Wrestling Federation scripted assault on history and intelligence. Nothing he said had any relationship with the truth. It is much more damaging than Perrys mind fart because it fits with a fanciful mythology of America that feeds people like Tea Party supporters.

For the record here are the actual facts of corporations and wealth creation in America.

1) America was not founded on capitalism. The existing economic system up until the 19th century was Mercantilism. By the end of the 18th century there were only 8 manufacturing corporations in the US. The New York Stock Exchange was founded in 1817. Up until 1830 corporations were so unusual and infrequent that they required state legislation on an individual process.

2) More to the point capitalism didnt create wealth it created chaos. It went through multiple boom to bust cycles until the federal government asserted more control in the 1930s.

3) Europe and Americas wealth creation prior to capitalism was an imperialistic strategy called mercantilism that concentrating on using national forces to create free land through occupation and free labor through slavery (12 million taken from Africa and millions more born in slavery), indentured servitude (2/3rds of English settlers) and other forced European labor. Its pretty easy to create wealth with both free labor and land.

4) If you exclude the slave economy the vast, vast amount of wealth creation was not with large corporations but in small and medium sized businesses, including family owned farms. The shift to an all corporate domination model is a relative recent invention and Gingrichs Gaffe shows how far the Republican Party has gone in abandoning its traditional constituency of small and medium sized business owners to become full time lackeys of major corporations.

5) Does Gingrich really want to drag up the early history of Standard Oil, the Railroad monopolies and so on? Consider the two most successful early capitalist enterprises; Lloyds of London and the East India Company. Working together these two companies pioneered the perfection of Imperialist Capitalism. After securing monopoly rights in India East India perfected the marketing of tea to the masses in England. Unfortunately there was nothing that the Indians wanted so there was a depletion of gold in England to pay the Indians for the tea. By introducing opium from India to China they opened a steady supply of silver. When the growing number of addicts and the depletion moved the Chinese to ban the trade the English used their navy to lob cannon balls up and down the Yangtze until the Chinese conceded, gave them rights to sell opium and the territory known as Hong Kong to develop a harbor for their trade.

(Ironic exclamation point to the whole discussion; Hong Kong was established as a center of unrestricted capitalism with no interference in such socialist tools like minimum wage and so on. Today Honk Kong announced that they officially had entered into a recession. http://www.ecademy.com/node.php?id=169875 Note how this not only counters Gingrichs idiotic point but Walshs idiotic point discussed above)

We could go on.

Lets not.

Lets just pause and realize that this idiotic claptrap comes from what they consider their leading light of intelligent discourse of political history.

Gingrich is considered brilliant because he doesnt suffer from mind freezes. Rather he inflicts on the listening public a constant flow of diarrheic nonsense that is manufactured wishful fantasy that seeks to whitewash Americas historical beginnings and invent an economic history that never existed.

2) Romneys Gaffe




Here is what this genius said;

What happens with profit is that you can grow the business. You can expand it. You have working capital and you hire people. The right thing for America is to have profitable enterprises that can hire people. I want to make American businesses successful and thrive.



The short answer is he is 100% wrong.

Here are the details;
1) The ONLY factor that determines the hiring of people is an increase in demand in goods or services. Think about it. Youre a CEO. Profits have increased 20% but there is no demand for additional goods or services. No additional workers would be hired. Now consider a second scenario; profits are down but demand is up would you hire additional workers to meet demand and increase profits. Of course you would.

2) It is quite possible to have very little capital, no profit and hire lots of workers. I know because I did it. In 1989 I started a furniture company and because I showed up to the bank with over a $ 1 million in letters of credits for future orders I could get the working capital I needed from the bank and it grew to 450 employees. This is known as packing orders and is common to get the financing you need for working capital to pay for raw material and direct labor. The basic formula the banks are looking for is that your paid up capital covers your capital costs (land, machinery, and so on). With a good business plan and controls it is relatively easy to raise working capital needed to hire workers if they can hold title on your capital assets. And the bigger reality is that if you have the orders then it is also easy to raise the capital you need. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates and hundreds of other entrepreneurs have used this same model.

3) Additionally profit can only be used to grow the business IF big IF it is kept in the company. If it is paid out in dividends then it isnt in the company and cant be used to grow the company.

4) It is true that if you have increased demand or want to expand demand it is easier to do so if you have existing profits to expand your capital base, but if you dont its easy to find. The critical point is demand not profits.

5) If you put aside points 1-4 then Romneys point would only make sense IF the direct labor involved was domestic. If the direct labor involved is in China then the expanded business that Romney is dreaming of would mean that there would be increased labor demand in China, not here.

6) Romney fails to disclose that INCREASED PROFITS COULD ALSO LEAD TO A DECLINE OF JOBS. He knows this very well because this was the model at Bain and Co. Make more profit buy companies consolidate operations reduce direct labor make more profits buy more companies, and so on. And in a less malicious example, increased profit could well lead to increased investment in advanced production facilities that would lead to a decline of jobs. The move to increased robotics is an example.

Again folks these were excerpts that the media put out not of Gaffes but highlights of Republican leaders doing a good job putting forth their talking points. Romney and Gingrich were both understood to have performed great and these were the excerpts offered as proof.

Has anyone in the media actually studied history or actually started a business?

Gotten that off my chest makes my stomach feel better. Tomorrow off to Yuma, Calexico, Brawley and other outposts deep in the red underbelly of the Southwest.

Oh and the third Gaffe that was actually worse than Perrys?

That would be ahhhh, damn oh what was it? Something about His Royal Highness Prince . . . .

What was his name again?

Oops.










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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. K/R
And you need an iPhone with this app: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/find-my-iphone/id376101648?mt=8

:toast:
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. You have me confused with someone who understands that stuff

Anybody smart enough to understand the applications isn't going to lose their phone! lol.




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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. wonder if anybody came up with an app for Perry

to remember where he put his brain.

I bet there is a parody already done somewhere.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. He must have forgotten his phone.
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
5. Republican Gaffe Cornucopia (Gaffecopia?)
I've been calling it the Gaffelympics, but the joke may be lost on people who didn't grow up in the Seventies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laff-A-Lympics
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. New to me but reading about it made me wonder what it would
be like to listen to the debates with a laugh track.
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. For the next debate, they all should be forced to
dress in costumes as Laff-A-Lympics characters. They wouldn't even have to change to letter on the t-shirts:



And the "Really Rottens" is the PERFECT "team" name, so no change needed there either.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. Again, my friend, a brilliant explanation of these
shithead's obvious numbskullery.

I wonder why YOU aren't a pundit instead of driving to Brawley to buy chotchkas for your import/export "specialty" shop in Sandy Eggo.


Really. You should write for Rachael Maddow.

And, as a sidenote - they don't shrink heads in Brawley.

Except yours, that is.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. chotchkas?
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Yes. Trumpery, baubles, 'cooterments
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I sense that you are an expert on these 'toys'
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Yep using my 'Cooterments right now.....
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. K&R Saved for future reference. Does a great job dismantling the lies. n/t
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
10. Gingrich made another major "gaffe" at the debate:
"BARTIROMO: What is the media reporting inaccurately about the economy?

GINGRICH: I love humor disguised as a question. That's terrific. I have yet to hear a single reporter ask a single Occupy Wall Street person a single rational question about the economy that would lead them to say, for example, who's gonna pay for the park you're occupying if there are no businesses making a profit?"


Now, just think about that for a moment. Newt Gingrich, Repuiblican candidate for president and ostensibly a very smart guy, asserts the media would report on the economy more accurately if it posed a loaded question with a false premise to some unknown protestor who may or may not be knowledgable about how the economy works.
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jobendorfer Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. It's so easy to torpedo Newt, why don't the democrats do it?
Newt: "... who's gonna pay for the park you're occupying if there are no businesses making a profit?"

A simple and direct counter would be:

"Uh, Newt, in reality, public parks are closing right and left because your rich friends a) pay their works beans, and b) don't pay their fair share of taxes, so the government doesn't have any money."

It's just. That. Easy.

J.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. Nailed it...
...loved this line about Teh Newtie

"...he inflicts on the listening public a constant flow of diarrheic nonsense that is manufactured wishful fantasy that seeks to whitewash Americas historical beginnings and invent an economic history that never existed..."
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
12. Your premise here is flawed, the Republican base loves that stuff so they are not gaffes


They are wrong, no doubt about it, but they will help when pandering to conservatives.


Those were not gaffes, that is what passes for logic in their bizzaro world version of reality.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. K&R and love this too
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-11-11 11:11 PM

Three Debate Gaffes that were worse than Perry's 'mind freeze' gaffe.


Bam!!!!!!:rofl: :hug:

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. great thread
Edited on Sat Nov-12-11 12:29 PM by bigtree
Romney . . . the reasonable looking one . . . he has a lot of trouble whenever he attempts to express an original thought. His points of reference are really screwed. Kind of like McCain, but at least JMC's a frugal man. Romney owns his own bubble.
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. Thanks for this
Remarkable explanation of how they're snowing the masses.

Two books that back you up on this: "The Illusions of Free Markets" and "23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism"
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. K and R
enjoyed your analysis of the debate. If a repugnant is talking, she/he is lying. They're all willfully ignorant...and what scares me is that so many voters are as well.

Native Americans have said that a 'Wetiko' has enveloped our land...a brainwashing of sorts that is very dangerous. And of course w/ the MSM spreading it, the easier it spreads.

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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. Fantastic post. Bookmarked and copied to my personal files for reference
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. are those what you would consider Supply Side Economics ?
i still can't figure that out.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. You might not be able to figure it out because it doesn't make any sense

David Stockman who was the Congressman who pushed it and as Reagan's OMB director put it into practice.


He has since renounced it, documented how it created today's debt crises and how the Republicans are making it worse.


You might find this useful;


http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2010/08/01/206517/david-stockman-how-gop-destroyed-the-economy/
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Moosepoop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R
I hope your phone smartens up and contacts you. :)
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
24. This is a very important thread. Thanks Grantcart
Edited on Sat Nov-12-11 06:42 PM by OwnedByFerrets
The only disagreement I have with you is that these are NOT gaffe's. They are deliberate distortions/lies.
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
25. Thank you. I bookmarked it too.
You explained, very well, how the market works.
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Pool Hall Ace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
27. Thank you for this thread.
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lob1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
29. K&R. Excellent post, Grantcart,,,simple, clear and very
well written. I also agree with ownedbyferrets in post #24. These aren't gaffes. A gafffe is a blunder, an embarrassing mistake. These people are lying. Every single one of them.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. K&R
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
31. K & R !!!
:hi:

:kick:
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12AngryBorneoWildmen Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
32. Great, GREAT Stuff. Thanks.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
33. I believe Romney or Perry said that instead of sending
foreign aid, send American businesses. So is he proposing outsourcing as foreign policy?
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begin_within Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
34. They don't worry about such trivialities as facts and spelling, because they're doing "God's work."
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Beartracks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
35. K&R - Can I quote you on some of this?
Love this:

"If the premise that government is the main problem and that unfettered natural markets are the solution, then would the GOP please explain why countries like Somalia that have no regulation and are governed by local religiously pious elders are excruciatingly poor and countries that have massive regulation, like Switzerland and Germany, are among the richest countries in the world?"

I might need to spread that question around. :thumbsup:

=====================
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Yes of course use at will and thanks for your comments
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
36. Excellent Post.
I wish it could be required reading for all voters.
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