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What is different about Bill Clinton vs. Herman Cain concerning their alleged sexual misconduct?

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madville Donating Member (743 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:38 AM
Original message
What is different about Bill Clinton vs. Herman Cain concerning their alleged sexual misconduct?
I have heard this twice this week, along the lines of "Not a big deal, Bill did the same stuff".

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Monica was willing,
Cain's victims weren't.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Thought the righties will bring up Juanita Broaddrick...
They think she is very reliable...


In 1997, Broaddrick had filed a sworn affidavit with Paula Jones' lawyers, denying that Clinton had ever assaulted her: "During the 1992 Presidential campaign there were unfounded rumors and stories circulated that Mr. Clinton had made unwelcome sexual advances toward me in the late seventies... These allegations are untrue ...."<1> In November 1998, Broaddrick contradicted her sworn statement in an interview with Dateline NBC.<2><3> The interview, broadcast in February 1999, centered around Broaddrick's accusation that Clinton had raped her on April 25, 1978, during his first campaign for the governorship of the U.S. state of Arkansas, at a time when Clinton was the Attorney General for the state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanita_Broaddrick
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. cain lost HALF of his female supporters. YEA. as far as your question,
i don't care. that was two decades ago and i believe clinton disgusted (even though he had support more because of repugs behavior, not his own) people so much he effected gores election.

but the thrill for me is cain has lost HALF of his women supporters. yea
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I'm also heartened that before all the allegations female donors...
WERE NOT giving.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. Sadly, he did not effect Gore's election.
He affected it very negatively however.
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Yeah, Bill left the national treasure chest full and the Democratic Party bankrupt. n/t
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Hardly that, but a lot of the slime directed at him
ended up on Gore. Remember that Gore didn't encourage Bill to campaign for him and, mistake or not, a lot of us understood why.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. yes. nt
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
36. Gore's mistakes were of his own making.
Bill Clinton, despite the sex scandal, was still very popular but Gore chose not to utilize him in the states where his political skills would have helped Gore the most. I even remember Bill saying publicly that he would help Gore whenever he asked him to, Gore never did.

All the moralizing self righteous crap that went on in that era was sickening. Including coming from some Democrats like Edwards. Funny that after all these years it's the Clintons who are still together while many of these other people's relationships have floundered.

After 5 years of persecution and millions of dollars dollars of our tax payer money wasted on investigating the Clintons, that was all that Starr found?

Pathetic............

x(
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Kurmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. The public failed too, falling for that gold ole boy nonsense that Dubya dished out.
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Major Nikon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
42. Clinton had higher approval ratings DURING the impeachment proceedings than Raygun ever had
The people recognized the GOP's subversion of the political process for exactly what it was.

Gore made his own mistakes.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. If you are a Democrat, it's a major moral failing making you unfit for office.
If you're a Republican, it's considered your "droit du seignor"
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nenagh Donating Member (657 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
34. "Droit du seignor"
I had exactly the same thought .. a few days ago...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Wow. (nt)
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. IIRC there was only the Flowers settlement
which came up during the campaign, is that correct?

If so then there is a difference in numbers at least. And the settlement amount.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Flowers was an affair, not harrassment. n/t
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Oops, yes...
So yeah, you can't compare the two at all.

One harassment suit a few years after he was in office is much different from two plus the rest before you're even the candidate.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. The harassment allegations were Kathleen Willey and Paula Jones.
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Ship of Fools Donating Member (899 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
9. Consenting adults.
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
40. +1
Also, Cain is making moral piety a keystone of his campaign.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
10. I'll try...
First, Clinton had a consensual relationship with Monica Lewinsky. This is perhaps the most important aspect of it.

Second, while both me lied about it, Cain has the backing of the very people who sought to remove Clinton from office, and a complicit media. If anything, the media was part of the process in impeaching Clinton, while they do nothing to dig deep into the Cain allegations.
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
12. It's this whole nasty attitude
that Herman Cain seems to have toward women.

I may be wrong, but all during the time Clinton was being accused of sexual things toward other women, I never heard him disparage the women accusing him. It seems to me that he actually enjoys women.

Whereas Herman Cain seems to hold them in contempt. How many nasty remarks have we heard him making about women so far? "Princess Nancy"...some nasty comment recently about Anita Hill...disparaging the characters of those women accusing him of sexual assault/harassment.

OK, so maybe they're both horndogs, but I would rather have an experience with someone who didn't try to make me look like a pig afterwards.

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BlueToTheBone Donating Member (196 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
13. Clinton is a democrat and Cain is a republican
and the women accusing Cain didn't want his attentions; Monica sneaked and begged her way into the room.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
29. +1 If Obama was being accuseed of the same thing
the Republicans heads would explode.
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BlueToTheBone Donating Member (196 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. and the evils of sexual harrassment would be front page
news. But we all know IOKIYAR! What hypocrites.
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PoliticAverse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
14. Clinton Payment Ends Jones Suit
President Clinton sent an $850,000 check to Paula Jones yesterday, finally closing out the sexual harassment lawsuit that continues to imperil his presidency, and in a surprise move, financed nearly half the settlement with his own money.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/impeach011399.htm
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
17. I am certainly not a BillFan but
comparing his conduct with Cain's is like apples and baseball bats and those who do think it's the same obviously don't know what the heck sexual harassment is.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
18. Both were embarrassing moral and ethical lapses.
There's not a lot of difference, really. I'm not talking about Lewinsky. That was consensual, but still a moral lapse. There were other incidents.

I was extremely disappointed in President Clinton, to be quite frank. It cast a shadow on his Presidency for me. Cain is not President, and will not be President. He's a jerk. In some ways, so was Bill Clinton.

Powerful people often have moral lapses, it seems. I'm very glad to see that President Obama does not seem to be someone likely to have committed such lapses. I'm never surprised when a powerful person has feet of clay. Disappointed, but not surprised.

I'm sort of forced by history to look at what Presidents do on an official basis. Personal flaws seem to come into the picture, regardless of party or politics. JFK was no saint, either.

:shrug:
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SoutherDem Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
19. Well let us assume there are no differences,
Didn't Republicans say someone who did such a disgusting thing didn't deserve to be President?
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
21. The Republican reaction is a stark difference, is it not?
That stands out for me. Same officials and voters who wanted Bill removed from office are seeking to install Hermann in that office. Astounding, really.
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. The reaction amoung democratic voters seems different as well. n/t
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Democrats are simply laughing at the hypocrites.
Its great fun to watch the same right wing pundits who wanted to crucify Clinton now spin 180 and attack Cain's accusers.

The big difference of course is that Cain's actions actually resulted in two settlements.

There is no way to deny that, and yet the right wing wants to pretend that it never happened.

So much for the party of family values.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. Cain is in a Republican Primary, Democratic voters have
nothing to do with it, nor do their votes. I'm sure some individuals have double standards on our side, but what's that got to do with an entire Party who went nuts over Clinton wanting to nominate Cain? That's hypocrisy that goes beyond the individual, such as Newt's affairs during his frothing about Clinton's affair, it is a Party wide, leadership created, full tilt double standard. It's hilarious.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
27. I'm told that to be in Bill's presence is magnetic and that women...
who never thought about falling for him, fall for him instantly. Upthread, the word used was "consensual."
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pipi_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. Magnetic...that's the word
Edited on Sat Nov-12-11 11:20 AM by pipi_k
The Monica Lewinsky incident aside, he looks like he would not be a selfish, "Wham, bam, thank you ma'am" type of guy. I mean, we don't know why it began and ended with oral sex only...

Plus...and this is important...he also seems like he would be interested in a woman from a human perspective. You know...what she thinks and feels.

And he's intelligent.

And rather easy on the eyes, as well... ;) I love his smile, and the way his eyes crinkle up at the corners.


Yep. I find him attractive on many levels, but not from a long-term relationship standpoint. Knowing his history, I mean...

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. Yep, when Bill talks to you he has the ability to make you feel
Edited on Sat Nov-12-11 12:24 PM by Beacool
like you're the only person in the room. He oozes charm and charisma without even trying. Bill Maher put it best years ago when he said that he couldn't figure out what was it about Clinton that had women in a tizzy until he met him. He then quipped that Bill was so charming that even he was ready "to f*ck him".

:)
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. LOL! nt
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. Bill Clinton's charisma is a force of nature.
I saw him three times in person when he was campaigning in 1992.
I was blinded. All I could do was stand there like an idiot and make noises like "glub glub blub bleah".

I could not talk. He has that effect on women. Some of us turn into complete blithering idiots.

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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Yep, there's no one like him.
It's his dazzling charisma that charms everyone, including Hillary. Anyone who knows her is aware that she's still besotted by the guy, flaws and all.

:-)
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
28. One is "our guy", the other is not. Clinton was accused of harassment and worse. nt
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
33. Both of them were wrong
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
35. Both are lecherous jerks.
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Major Nikon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
41. Kinda like comparing a guy who visits a prostitute with a rapist
NT
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-12-11 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
44. Concensual sex is not the same as Sexual Harassment. n/t
Edited on Sat Nov-12-11 05:40 PM by in_cog_ni_to
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madville Donating Member (743 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. That's a fine line
Edited on Sun Nov-13-11 11:11 AM by madville
If Monica had rebuffed Bill's advances then he would have been sexually harassing her? If the women Cain propositioned had accepted his advances then it would have just been consensual sex?
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
46. one is a democrat and one is a republican
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Quartermass Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
48. Cain is a Conservative Black man.
And it's all about doing as much damage to him in order to ruin his reputation so he won't run for president.

Lest we forget crap like this:

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Courtesy Flush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-13-11 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
49. I'm not going to be partisan on this
Clinton was alleged to have forcibly raped a woman. I don't know if it's true, any more than I know if Cain's allegations are true.

The worst of the Clinton allegations came after he was in office. If they'd come before the election, it might have been justifiable to eliminate him as a candidate. But he was already in office, and he got impeached, which is the prescribed legal action for his actions after the fact. The issue was addressed. I can't say he was fully punished, since I don't know whether he was actually guilty of the sexual assaults, but the allegations were aired and adjudicated, and he was punished for the crimes that he was found guilty of.

But you cannot impeach a candidate. You can only eliminate him from consideration, and choose someone else, who presumably has not acted so badly. I don't hear anything about legal action against Cain. I only know that it hurts his campaign. That's not the harshest punishment, let's face it.

Republicans have made their stance of sexual misconduct very clear. Well, their stance on Democrats' sexual misconduct, anyway. It's fun to see them flip flop.

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