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Juan Cole: Police Crackdowns on OWS Coordinated among Mayors, FBI, DHS

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demmiblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:34 AM
Original message
Juan Cole: Police Crackdowns on OWS Coordinated among Mayors, FBI, DHS
Oakland Mayor Jean Quan let slip in an interview with the BBC that she had been on a conference call with the mayors of 18 cities about how to deal with the Occupy Wall Street movement. That is, municipal authorities appear to have been conspiring to deprive Americans of their first amendment rights to freedom of assembly and freedom to petition the government for redress of grievances.

Likewise, A Homeland Security official let it slip in a phone interview that the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security had been strategizing with cities on how to shut down OWS protests. The FBI is said to have advised using zoning ordinances and curfew regulations, and to stage the crackdown with massive police force at a time when the press was not around to cover the crackdown.

Wonkette suggests that the PATRIOT Act is implicated here, but Im not sure how that works. Actually the techniques discussed are standard for US police forces in dealing with peaceful protests (the only routine technique missing is that of putting saboteurs among the protesters who cause destruction and create an image of them as violent.

What these two reports show is a high-level conspiracy to deprive Americans of their constitutional right to protest peacefully.

When will we see Occupy Wall Street protesters hooded, dressed in orange jump suits, and sent to Guantanamo for military trials? When you let the government act without regard for the rule of law toward foreigners suspected of terrorism, you open yourself to be treated the same way if the rich decide to sic their police on you (it is mostly their police). This is why a rule of law has to be maintained. Anything less ratchets toward tyranny.

http://www.juancole.com/2011/11/police-crackdowns-on-ows-coordinated-among-mayors-fbi-dhs.html
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Danse Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. Tyranny
America is now officially a police state. Some might argue that it has always been thus for political activists, poor people and people of color. But the veil has been lifted. Do something now, or prepare for the triumph of the oligarchy.

I would also add the movement needs to stop treating Obama with kid gloves. He is just as responsible for these assaults against liberty as Mayor Quan and the FBI.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Not bloody likely.

Most here on DU understand that the nation is in very deep shit. Even the die-hard Obama supporters wouldn't suggest that this isn't happening.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. "Even the die-hard Obama supporters wouldn't suggest that this isn't happening."
You obviously haven't read some of the posts I've read this morning!
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Link.

The "there were posts like that everywhere!" BS gets very tiring.

Also, it's pretty transparent. So let's have some links to these 'posts'.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I can't do that, per DU's rules on calling-out/stalking other posters.
Sorry, I don't want my post deleted and will let it stand. Read through some of threads on this topic and you can read for yourself.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. That's bull. You can link to a post.
Really, I've seen that tactic used too many times. "They're everywhere! I'm just not allowed to show you!".

You could also PM the links. So no, that's bullshit. If they're there, you can show someone.

As for this, I'll be disappointed if, after being apprised of the facts, anyone claims that it's not happening. I've only seen one post so far that doubts the veracity of the claims and has not yet made the claim that 'it's not happening'. This line pretty well proves it; "If true, it would be really something." That clearly demonstrates a willingness to accept the possibility. So, no... no one has yet claimed "it's not happening".

If you're so afraid of having your post deleted, and you really do have examples of people claiming it's not happening, you can PM them without 'breaking' any rules.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Egads.
I'm not pm'ing you anything. Why would I engage with you off the board if you're this hostile to me in public? No thanks!
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Bwhahahahaaa.... And there we have it!

Another tactic I've seen too many times; "I don't like your tone so I'm not going to provide anything!"

Pointing out how transparent you are is hardly 'hostile'. As you are aware, 'hostility' is also against the rules here.

You have nothing, you know you have nothing, now you just need an excuse to avoid having to admit it.

Anytime you want to set the record straight, feel free to PM me. I deal in earnest with earnest dealers. Right now you aren't dealing in earnest, I am. If you have it, PUOSU.
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StandingInLeftField Donating Member (382 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Here's your link
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Thank you!

Can you tell whatsherface how easy that was for you? I imagine she has me on 'ignore' by now.

What we have is a healthy dose of skepticism. I imagine as the day has worn on and more facts come to light, more people will come to realize that there is a coordinated effort between DHS and the mayors.

For the moment though, we can't say Obama ordered this coordination. What we need is to have him grilled over this by the press.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. In the past....

only the President could coordinate bringing in the National Guard, under something called Operation Garden Plot which has recently been declassified under FOIA. This actually happened during the LA Riots.

New post-9/11 plans have replaced Garden Plot and there is some speculation that these are classified as well, but these plans may make it easier for Feds to coordinate police actions along with the DHS. If these rules were enacted during the Bush Administration then it's no great leap of faith that the president remains in control.

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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. I thought you were asking for individual posters' comments.
I didn't know you hadn't read the DHS-coordination threads yet. Geesh. Lighten up already.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Ain't no thing.
Still, I'm really sick of the tactic "Well, it's there but I can't show you" because it's been used to support total bullshit too many times. Since the rules barely even make it difficult to share that kind of info, 9 times out of 10 the poster is full of shit.

Now you know how... so don't let it happen again!

;)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
:thumbsup:
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Scuba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
5. Maybe OWS should incorporate. Corporation's "free" speech is protected. n/t
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kayakjohnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. You are right.
Great idea!
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I agree - at this point they should do that in self-defense.
They would have to be very vocal about why they are doing it ... but I agree.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. That's a good plan... nt
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demmiblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. Heh!
:thumbsup:
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. I wonder how many of the mayors are on this list of authoritarians
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
10. Mayor Goonberg turns out to be a pawn
for the masters that pull his strings. Essentially he's a billionaire puppet.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
11. knr
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
12. all of this sourced from that one article from an unnamed Homeland security official
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 08:55 AM by bigtree
This is the standard of proof to charge the Obama administration with 'high-level conspiracy to deprive Americans of their constitutional right to protest peacefully?' Really?

Sorry, I just don't trust the source on this. If true, it would be really something. The report is slight and incomplete. Not enough of a credible source to go off the deep end and start accusing this administration.

Besides, the rw rag that produced this article is always full of unsupported innuendo and outright falsehoods. The writer may well be on the up and up, but I don't think he has enough proof to make this type of declarative accusation. Neither does Cole (who I respect).

btw, that rw rag started their run by leaving free papers in my driveway. I let them pile up under the tree until they came and picked them up after I called a few times.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Did you see countdown last night? Michael Moore and KO discussed this very thing...
...I think this is one is on the mark..
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. I'm thinking overblown
It's not shocking to find mayors at their wits end with the occupations and looking for counsel as to the legal limits of their ability to do so, and looking to each other for support and guidance.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Except for Jean Quan admitting that she was coordinating with other Mayors,
You might have something.

It's happening. The FAA had to be petitioned to shut down airspace. The only question is how much of this is under the attention of Obama. I'm sure the Obama haters will claim he ordered it himself with no proof whatsoever.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I even think the mayors coordinating is overblown
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 10:26 AM by bigtree
did they discuss it? Evidently. Did their discussions lead to some talk about how to uproot the protestors? Likely. Is that so unusual? These folks are in a panic. I also wouldn't be surprised to find some of them looking to the Justice Dept. for guidance as to the extent of their authority under the law. Why should that surprise anyone that some of these mayors might want to end the *occupations and would seek guidance as to their legal limits in doing so? Should they not talk to other mayors about the protests? I don't know how you can stop them from soliciting advice, or even coordinating their responses.

I do think all of that stops short of some vast conspiracy to stifle dissent.

I think the mayors are more concerned about the the impact the continuing occupations are going to have on business and commerce in their towns than on the nebulous political implications of its continuing.


*edit
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Can you explain the air space restrictions?
Mayors can't do that without the FAA. That's 'federal coordination'. Period.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. according to the article that cited the air space restrictions
. . . it was the NYPD who did it.

An NYPD helicopter forced a CBS chopper to vacate the air space . . .
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creon Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. There is no prrof
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creon Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
31. No proof
Unsubstantiated
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