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"#Occupy" is a tactic. The 99% is the movement. Keep going.

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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:23 PM
Original message
"#Occupy" is a tactic. The 99% is the movement. Keep going.
The social equality movement is not about the unfettered right to camp out in public spaces. It needs a new tactic to replace #Occupy, one that allows for broader participation, and is less vulnerable to being attacked/undermined by the 1%.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Agreed completely. Obsessing on one thing like this is pointless.
Arguing about sitting out in a park boils down to an exercise in stubbornness, and it makes the left as a whole look silly. Put that dedication into going after and getting rid of the Republicans who have blocked stronger regulation of Wall Street.
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Trace their Agents and Expose them , and put what they do to us in Tangible....
Mathematical terms ,one by one, " Who do you work for ,Prove it " .
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. The 'camping' is not the issue.
It's the 'free-speech' that's the issue.
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. How about
* propose defined policies

* nominate candiates to run against 1%ers

* primary challenge the unfaithful within the Democrat party

* appeal to middle America
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. Because none of that is what OWS is about
They're not a political movement. They're not trying to take over the Democratic Party. They're not trying to appeal to "middle America" (if that term even has meaning any more).

OWS might best be described as a movement of national renewal (nested within a larger movement of global renewal). Their primary message is that the system is broken from top to bottom, beyond the point where politics as usual can fix it -- and that our only hope is for people to start thinking differently, living differently, and freeing themselves from dependence on the corporate machine.

If that kind of transformation can be brought about, new forms of politics will follow. But thinking you can start with conventional politics and get anything but more of the same is simply a bad joke.

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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. "Occupy" is a good tactic.
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 06:43 PM by CJCRANE
It's hypocritical to support freedom of speech in the Middle East, including "occupations", but clamp down on them at home.

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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. People like you suggesting a broader body is one way .
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. My favorite tactic of the 99% movement: the surprise mic check
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 06:41 PM by meow2u3
The mic checking of the 1%. This tactic is brilliant because the protesters initially blend in with the audience, announce "mic check", and announces a "people's indictment" of the target's crimes against democracy, surprising the target of the mic check and provoking an inappropriate reaction in his or her lackeys. This tactic exposes their targets as the spoiled, arrogant, sociopathic clowns they are and lets the people know exactly whose side he/she is on.

That's just one tactic the 99 percent should use. Vary your tactics, keep the 1% off balance, and get more people on our side.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I love the mic check too
It's a fascinating and productive way for groups to discuss things. It's inherently egalitarian.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. Why should they alter their tactics when they are so successful
that the 1% has sent out their thugs to try to shut them up?

If they were not successful, no one would be brutalizing them the way they are.

This has been a hugely successful tactic, and they should continue to do it, WE should continue to do it.

Occupy Everything! Today, eg, they are marching in huge numbers in SF and Portland and this weekend, they will be everywhere, all over the world, occupying wherever they can.

It's odd how many people here are adapting the message of the right pretending this has not been one of the most successful protests in the living memory of many people today.

Even the MSM is doing its best to try to stop it. But it's unstoppable, this is what they do not understand.

If you have advice for the movement, you are welcome to go to a GA in your area and present it. That is the beauty of the movement, everyone can get involved, everyone will be heard.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I agreee on its success, but now it's time to move on
I think the success of the #Occupy tactic has been nothing short of spectacular. For the first time since Carter was in the White House, it is once again okay to talk about the inequality elephant in the room. I love it.

But debate on the #Occupy tactic is now starting to overwhelm the discussion about inequality.

Also, most people can't/won't actually camp out in a park.

And those that are camped out are too easily isolated and picked off by the cops and civic infrastructure that work for the 1%.

So a new tactic is needed, one that includes GA's and mic checks, but can't be easily busted. That isn't a bad thing to talk about.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. The cops evicting the Occupy are in about only 4 cities
And if it weren't for those evictions the media would go silent. And I'm willing to bet the Occupy are working on tactics you and I haven't even thought about.

Your criticism hurt them, but maybe you're aware of that already.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. What?
You wrote: "Your criticism hurt them, but maybe you're aware of that already."

I don't see how that would be possible. I'm an anonymous poster on a fucking discussion board.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. No, it isn't. I don't think you understand this tactic.
The last thing you do is run after you flush out who is NOT working for the people.

The Indignados in Spain, who inspired this tactic, are not running nor is anyone else around the world, the movement having sky-rocketed world wide to over 2,600 cities now occupied, with more happening each day. The more they crack down, the bigger the movement grows.

You really should find out more about this.

Show me another tactic that has worked as well as this over the past ten years?

No way should they stop. Now they are occupying the Courts, to get injunctions against the brutal forces of the 1%. Today, Occupy Boston succeeded in stopping any raids on their encampment temporarily. THIS is what they need to do next.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. You wrote:
"The last thing you do is run after you flush out who is NOT working for the people."

Changing tactics is not "running".

You later wrote:

"No way should they stop. Now they are occupying the Courts, to get injunctions against the brutal forces of the 1%. Today, Occupy Boston succeeded in stopping any raids on their encampment temporarily. THIS is what they need to do next."

I didn't say to stop anything, and getting injunctions and resisting eviction in Boston or elsewhere is the right thing to do. No disagreement from me. But the Occupy tactic has limits, and people should think about the next stage for the 99% equality and justice movement, since there will be life after #occupy.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. You're entitled to your opinion, but the history of these tactics
says they should keep occupying the public square and now they have decided to get the courts to help them do that.

Their presence, the people's presence, in the public square is so effective that the 1% has coordinated their efforts around this country and in other parts of the world, (same exact crackdowns in Europe, Australia eg coordinated with the ones here) to try to remove them from the public square.

That says there is no way they should change those tactics. That says they are exactly what is needed, a real threat to the criminals who have taken over the world's economies.

They can do lots of other things also, as they have all along, but they should not give up their ground, until they are ready to. Certainly never in response to the brutality of the criminals running this and other countries.

As I said, go make the proposal at a GA somewhere near you. Here it is not going to get much attention or have any effect. Better to take actions, as the Occupiers do, where they count.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Actually, the debate appears to be on internet forums and
on the corporate media. Today, the occupiers have been very busy all over the world and the country, they don't seem to have any problems knowing what they are doing.

Several huge marches are taking place today eg, with solidarity marches in Europe.

Plans for Saturday are well under way and several Occupiers have gone to court and obtained temporary injunctions against the raids coordinated by the 1%.

You should move forward, as the occupiers are doinng and start working with them, as they are continuing to have success each day.

Another fun thing they did today was to Mic Check Karl Rove. He wasn't happy. The oligarchs and War Criminals have nowhere to hide from the people. That is the beauty of this Occupation. They are everywhere, and they can't be stopped by those who are in the pay of the 1%. Rove asked them 'what gives you the right to Occupy America'? Lol, I guess he doesn't know about 'citizenship'. That was the best he could do when the people confronted him. If only Congress would have done that. Now the people are taking these matters into their own hands as it is clear who Congress is working for.

If you have a proposal, don't waste time here, no one cares much anymore about what is talked about on partisan boards, left or right to be honest, go to a local Occupy and make your proposal. It's open to everyone and you will be heard.
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lbrtbell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. If they can get candidates worth voting for
That would be the most important thing. People who work FOR the people, instead of the 1%.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Why should they get candidates when they've stated they are't political
They're actually showing that the US government is corrupt. Corrupted by the 1%'s money. And why would you think participating in that corruption is going to change anything? They already decided who we're going to vote for with their money. So you think Occupy will get corporate money on their side? That's very unrealistic
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. So why are the Occupy sites getting more people showing up?
Your opinion is just that. But facts are facts for everyone.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I don't think that's true
Seriously, there are rallies to protest shutting down the protests, but these rallies are not "Occupy" type occupations. Rallies are good.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Rachel Maddow did almost an hour on how every shutdown is creating more
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 07:03 PM by lunatica
people to show up. What you 'think' is fine, I guess, but I'll go with what Rachel says.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
21. Here, I won't retype the whole thing
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tex-wyo-dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. Why should occupying as a tactic be replaced....
Edited on Wed Nov-16-11 07:59 PM by tex-wyo-dem
when it's been so successful? If it weren't successful, the 1% wouldn't feel the need to try to shut it down. The beautiful part about it is every time they do try to evict #occupy camps, the movement just gets more attention and larger every time.

The #Occupy campaign is basically the equivalent of a sit-in, which is an extremely effective form of protest when done properly. When a large group of people participate in a sit-in, it's nearly impossible to ignore because it's right in front of you.

With regards to "broader participation": I would guarantee that most of the people you see at occupy protests are not actually occupying the camp or park, but are just showing their support by participating for a few hours and then they go home. A relatively small percentage are actually staying in the camps.

With that being said, I do agree with you that the 99% movement needs to embrace as many effective non-violent tactics as they can, and they seem to be doing a damn good job of it so far :)
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
23. For 8+ long years I marched.
And I rallied. And I voted. And I did all the conventional things that generations before me did to bring about political change.

And what did that get me?

Pretty much squat.

OWS has gotten us farther in 2 months with their chosen tactic.

I support the Occupations, and hope that they are expanded to new locations and even broader Occupy tactics such as flash mobs.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-16-11 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
24. Things will evolve and come to pass in their own time. nt
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