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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:15 AM
Original message
Poll question: A simple question without hysterics or personal attacks.
Should the President make a statement regarding the use of violent force employed against the Occupy movement?
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. You mean like he has on the ones in Egypt? (nt)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. I'd wager they're already 'tired' of being stomped. However, staying
non-violent in the face of excessive force and brutality gains them more power than they would have were they to meet the police violence with violence.

It's counter-intuitive and I often have trouble wrapping my mind around it. I'm not a 100% pacifist, as I do believe violence was necessary to stop fascism. But the imagery of these students recalls the lunch counters of the 50s, Selma, Gandhi and so on.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. +1
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PoliticAverse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah to Holder. n/t
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yep, and for that matter Napolitano and Mueller n/t
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yes, and that is what my signature is all about
Great words by President Obama, and he should say something along similar lines about the protests in this country.
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. +1
That is exactly what he should say.
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HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. No. nt
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. Yes. He should make a statement to the Attorney General and
Edited on Wed Nov-23-11 11:21 AM by MineralMan
the FBI director, telling them to get on this immediately. That is the role of the President in civil rights matters like this. Perhaps he already has done exactly that, before turning to other important issues of national significance, like dealing with a Congress that appears to be unable to do anything much at all. Then, he can make a public statement that he has directed those people to conduct investigations of any apparent civil rights violations in connection to he Occupy protests.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
7. Yes. And it would not need to be a complicated statement, could be simply
that people have the right to do peaceful demonstrations without the threat/use of violent force.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks for all that that participate.
When people interject personal feelings in the question or the answer, it's hard to gage where people stand or what they feel in general regarding force and protest. I hope at some point, we don't deteriorate into 1968 levels and beyond.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
12. It doesn't matter if protesters are Occupy or not, if peaceful they should not have violence against
Obama never has to mention Occupy at all to make a powerful statement.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. That is my feeling as well. Are we not citizens that deserve to be protected from violence?
Edited on Wed Nov-23-11 11:44 AM by mmonk
A simple statement might help to insure that.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
14. Since Obama has no problem with extra-judicial executions, I
strongly suspect he has no problem with extra-judicial punishments like those meted out at UC-Davis, New York City, Tulsa, Portland, Seattle, ad infinitum.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Indeed, the public statement has already been made
And that statement is "Watch your ass, because you could be the next designated very, very bad person."
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Extra-judicial punishment is as American as cherry pie (with
apologies to H. Rap Brown)
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Excellent point
And note that he has murdered several children who were American citizens with drone strikes. Seems to me like he probably doesn't give a shit if a couple college kids get maced and beaten. Goldmann-Sachs was his #1 campaign contributor in 2008. Tim Geithner is his Treasury Secretary. Jeff Immelt...Bob Rubin...Larry Summers...Eric Holder...

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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. a simple statement would not be asking too much
There might be a point in saying that he should avoid too close an association with the OWS movement. Even the OWS movement would prefer that. But a simple measured and moderate statement defending their right to protest and expressing disapproval of excessive use of force is not too risky and is not expecting too much.
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
20. I'd like to remind all here that (DINO?) JFK and (DINO?) LBJ
in their times, had turned blind eyes to far worse brutalities than OWS has experienced to date. It was only after the bloody violence extending to murder had reached an unacceptable level that they responded.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. We certainly don't want to wait that long again.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. And how does that make it right? The question is not about the
past, it is about the now, and we are allegedly capable of learning from the past, for example learning not to wait for deaths to speak out against violence. No one called anyone a DINO, no one asked if LBJ did it, you were asked what you think should be done by this President, today. "Johnny did it" is not an answer at all.
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. To me, being "right" isn't always about placing myself on a "more moral than thou" position
Sometimes, it's doing whatever may be necessary to pull through the night, so that I can accomplish something good later on.

To Obama, it would be doing whatever may be necessary to keep the WH Democratic in 2013 as well as the Senate and House. That thought must also have obsessed those previously mentioned "DINOs"
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SomethingFishy Donating Member (552 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. So that makes it right?
Why is it that on many occasions Obama's failures are met with "but so and so didn't do it either"?

I don't give a rats ass if JFK or LBJ or KFC did it. It's not about what came before it's about what is right.

Obama had no problem sticking up for protesters overseas. That quote is going to haunt him.
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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. (Sigh!) There is virtually NO downside to scolding other counties. Quite the contrary!
But that changes radically when doing that inside the USA. It's a minefield, and one that Obama should handle with great caution.

I have Freedom Summer in Audible.com format and have listened it 3 times this past year, and each time was a soul-wrenching experience. To equate the 'atrocities' so far of the OWS movement to that Civil Rights movement is something that I find an abomination!
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SomethingFishy Donating Member (552 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Really you find it an abomination? Why is that?
Because they have only beat and pepper sprayed people? Because there have been no dogs or fire hoses yet? Because the military hasn't been called out yet? Nice.


What I find an "abomination" is people desperately trying to stick up for Obama even when he fucks up royally. And this is a royal fuck up. He's supposed to be pissing off the Republicans not the fucking liberals.
You are either for the rights of people to protest or not you can't fucking have it both ways.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. And a lesson should be taken from those failures, this time do not wait until
there has been a loss of life. It has come close enough to that already with OWS. Using those lessons, it is imperative to step forward now and prevent a repeat of those tragedies.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. That is a moral position and in my opinion, a right position.
Edited on Wed Nov-23-11 05:11 PM by mmonk
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. Deleted message
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
23. Yes, but only if Skip Gates gets pepper sprayed.
Thousands arrested and hundreds attacked, and yet the President does not speak out like he did when Skip got hassled by a cop. Not harmed, just hassled.
Picked up the phone to plead for Vick's fair treatment, a man who stole pets and killed them for sport.
The only man on Earth silent about the brutality. Pathetic and cowardly.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
26. It is well past time.
Of course he should.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
27. 133 yes votes, and 14 recs, counting mine. Do the math. Kick
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
30. The Justice Department should be investigating the incidents
And they should be treated as a Civil Rights violation.

Does it take the President to tell the Justice Department to investigate? It should not!
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. +1
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
31. Maybe he will after he sets up a bi-partisan super committee to advise him and suggest remidies.
aka: CYA
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
36. Yes (nt)
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