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Kadie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:43 AM
Original message
“I have never seen such an inappropriate and improper use of chemical agents”
Pepper Spray’s Fallout, From Crowd Control to Mocking Images
By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE
Published: November 22, 2011


snip...
“The courts have made it very clear that these type of devices can’t be used indiscriminately and should be used only when the target poses a physical threat to someone,” said Michael Risher, staff attorney for the A.C.L.U. of Northern California.

To Kamran Loghman, who helped develop pepper spray into a weapons-grade material with the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the 1980s, the incident at Davis violated his original intent.

“I have never seen such an inappropriate and improper use of chemical agents,” Mr. Loghman said in an interview.

Mr. Loghman, who also helped develop guidelines for police departments using the spray, said that use-of-force manuals generally advise that pepper spray is appropriate only if a person is physically threatening a police officer or another person.

more...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/23/us/pepper-sprays-fallout-from-crowd-control-to-mocking-images.html?_r=2



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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. The responses to Lt. Pike's improper use of pepper spray
are gaining ground. They're doing the job that needs to be done, and will affect how this noxious material will be used in the future. Public outcry is the most powerful possible way to change procedures. I have no doubt that memos regarding pepper spray use are being read to shifts going on duty in many places today. There are many paths to change. This is one of them.
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Let us hope Pike's Peaked!
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. This is one of the paths that wouldn't have happened by staying within the political process..
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. It also filters edown to the individual officer
Who wants to be the next John Pike, ridiculed and humiliated across the internet, and sitting on admin leave, with possible lawsuits and termination proceedings on the horizon? Which police officer wants to be that guy, for next time?

As soon as they have to think twice, we've won. The images here are thousands of times more powerful than attacking the dude on the spot. They should make posters with the image, but Pike's face replaced with a white circle reading "Your Face Here," and his name crossed out with "Your Name Here" beneath it. You carry dozens of those at protests, and we'll see what the individual police officer thinks of his or her anonymity and the actions it authorizes. .
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. Kick
:kick:
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secondwind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. K&R



:kick:
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. The whole world is talking about it.
Except for the President, of course.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Why should he bother his beautiful mind about it when he is the most powerless person in the world?
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yep. There's absolutely nothing the president could do or say.
Unless we're talking about election time, I mean. If Perry were president, his power would be absolute! He could even command the weather! Boo!
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. hehehe
:evilgrin: :thumbsup:
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PurgedVoter Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. Assault while wearing a badge
Simply put, Assault while wearing a badge, should be considered assault and abuse of authority. The commander of the force should be working to prosecute the turncoat that violated all appropriate ethics.
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stuntcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. "should be used only when the target poses a physical threat to someone,”
that seems obvious, so screamingly obvious.
Men with badges and uniforms using pepper spray on un-armed people (old ladies.. a bunch of people sitting down..) is just a shame on them.

I'm totally on the side of policemen. They are citizens like the rest of us. They keep me safe. But when they start hurting people who aren't ANY danger to anyone, and no other cops step in to stop it, then it changes my mind about them.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. And baby squirrels too
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stuntcat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. that is the kind of thing I will never forget seeing
I'm not kidding one bit. This kind of think builds up like a mountain in me.
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Kadie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. no words.
:grr:


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bengalherder Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. Not just uniforms
but armor.


Guess this is the new feudalism.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think a few students are going to get all their education costs paid for them..
I hope they sue that cop into oblivion...
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
15. “I have never seen such an inappropriate and improper use of chemical agents,”
Really? Were you completely asleep during the RNC demonstrations in 2008? I appreciate the sentiment and the outrage, but damn, this really shouldn't surprise anybody that hasn't had their head up their ass for the last ten years. Our police have become a militarized terrorist force.
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Fokker Trip Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I like your use of the word "terrorist" there. Seems right to me. nt
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Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-23-11 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R
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Rozlee Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
18. They used to spray us with that shit in the Army
It was part of our NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) training. They'd make us go through this gas chamber and douse us with the stuff. The macho guys would go in all cocky and come out on the other end dying. You could never tell who would react how with that stuff. Some would recover OK after a few minutes, others would take hours, or even days. A person or two here or there had to be taken to the clinic or ER for asthma attacks or because their eyes had swelled shut. We were in a medical unit and our instructors told us stories of soldiers that had anaphylactic reactions to the stuff and almost died from shock and some who had. We were lucky that we only went through it twice since we were considered non-combatants. Infantry and SF often had to go through it over and over and your chances of getting greater sensitivity to the stuff--versus greater tolerance--is higher every time it's used on you.
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ladyVet Donating Member (279 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Had it in the USAF.
You know what it will be like, how to react, you know it's coming, and it's still a horrible experience. I was lucky not have a bad reaction to it -- well, no more than the usual things -- but a couple of people in my flight had to go to the hospital.

Nobody who is not an immediate danger to themselves or others should be shot, Tasered or pepper sprayed.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
19. As Rachel Maddow said in a recent segment, another issue is these agents allow force to be used
when it wouldn't otherwise be used. No way those students would be shot at with live ammo, right?
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
22. He walked just as calmly as a gardener spraying roses...
This "officer" was also the subject of another police officer's complaint. Accordingly, nothing came out of this complaint. They couldn't even get an internal investigation of his police brutality.

Now, I say he ought to be brought up on full charges, stemming back to the original officer's complaint, to show a pattern of abuse. This mean, of course, that his superiors will be found incompetent as well.

That's the least they can do at this point.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. "Superiors" are no longer held accountable.
As Sec. of Defense Donald Rumsfeld stated at the Congressional hearings on the abuses at Abu Ghraib,
"The Chain of Command is murky."

Incompetent "superiors" are now promoted, and given raises and bonuses.

George W Bush
Tim Geithner
Larry Summers
Eric Holder
John Boehner

Thats the "Uniquely American Solution".


...I could go on,
but you get the picture.




You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-25-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. ;-) I get the picture
click!
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-24-11 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
25. The implicit argument here is that pepper spray is not as bad as just shooting people
Well, thank God for small favors, Ms. Seelye!

:puke:
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