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GSLevel9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 03:26 PM
Original message
Save the Earth in this 70mpg diesel
Edited on Thu Jan-27-11 03:28 PM by GSLevel9
What Chevy SHOULD have built? The Polo is a piece of art and costs 22K USD in Germany.
2010 Volkswagen Polo BlueMotion Diesel - Quick Spin

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q4/2010_volkswagen_polo_bluemotion_diesel-quick_spin

What Is It?

Simply one of the most efficient five-seaters on the market today. The Volkswagen Polo BlueMotion (BlueMotion is VWs term for its line of hyper-frugal diesel vehicles) is designed to be mass-market compatible, unlike most fuel misers. Indeed, until recently, the typical efficient carespecially in Europe, where this Polo is soldhas been the very definition of a penalty box, with little in the way of luxuries and barely more horsepower than an Amish buggy. This Polo is comfortable and at least has enough power to merge into traffic safely.

How Does It Drive?

The Polo BlueMotion is powered by a 1.2-liter three-cylinder turbo-diesel derived from the 1.6-liter TDI four-cylinder available in the Golf BlueMotion and Passat BlueMotion models. It's equipped with a stop/start system that turns off the engine when stopped and restarts it when the driver requests movement. Revs at idle are reduced, and regenerative braking recuperates wasted energy when coasting or decelerating. Helping with efficiency, the Polo BlueMotion incorporates a lot of weight-saving technology and comes in at about 2400 pounds. That's considered lightweight these days....

If fuel consumption were the decisive criterion, nothing could come close to this VWincluding politically correct hybrids such as the Honda Insight and Toyota Prius, which are EPA city/highway rated at 40/43 mpg and 51/48 mpg, respectively. Europeans might consider the Polo's larger sister models, the Golf and Passat BlueMotion, both of which are powered by a 104-hp, 1.6-liter turbo-diesel and are rated at a respective combined 62 mpg and 53 mpg in the European cycle. Both can reach a top speed of about 120 mph.



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NuclearDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. People can bash the Volt all they want...
But it's still a step in the right direction.

I've got no problems with petrodiesel and clean diesel, but it's still mostly derived from fossil fuels, and while it'll slow down the depletion of fossil fuels, it won't stop it. Improving hybrid technology to the point where we can shift into pure electric cars WILL drastically reduce our need for petroleum.

tl;dr: Volt and Polo are both good concepts, one is not superior to the other.
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GSLevel9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. in theory I agree...
but that electricity comes from COAL and the batteries in these cars are an environmental DISASTER and the increased cost of a burdened infrastructure won't help anyone. The Volt is a toy for the moderately wealthy who can show off to his neighbors.

The Polo would cost $200 a month to lease and cost $50 in fuel to drive 1300 miles a month.

The VOLT will cost twice as much and raise your electricity bill by $??.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. remember to add back in the dirty power used to produce and move diesel too.
Edited on Thu Jan-27-11 03:45 PM by dmallind
Advocates for ff always seem to focus on all upstream energy used to create electricity but then pretend that diesel or gas just springs naturally from the pump in a fully refined and delivered state.

There is absolutely no comparison. Even using 100% coal generated electricity (no hydro otr solar or wind etc - and where I am the former is a dominant source) the much greater efficiency of EV motors to ICE as well as limited ff use makes them greener. ALWAYS.
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GSLevel9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. true... but
like it or not... petroleum refinement and production isn't going anywhere for the next century.

So if we already have the infrastructure to produce it, and we can start using HALF what we previously used... that's good right?

I mean someday... we may have a REAL wunder-car that runs on bean sprouts and the light of day but that is not going to happen soon.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. Of course - but there is no need to disparage *even better* alternatives to do that
Using less gas is good. Using none as a final power delivery system is even better. We should do as much as we can. Upstream fuel usage of any kind should be considered on its own merits, but equally, not introduced as an EV-only problem as it often is. Even considering upstream energy and pollution sources however, EVs remain a better choice IF the final product works for you. 60+% in the US commute daily well within EV range. The other 30odd need gas or to wait for better EVs. Multiple-car families are the norm. How many need to go 350 miles between fueling? Can that long distance car be a PEV or a hybrid or yes a high mpg diesel or gas car? Again the answer "no" is perfectly reasonable, but the more people who can and do answer "yes" the better, starting with EVs as the current best option. High mpg ICEs are a valid second option (true gas-not-oline power is an oft-neglected good alternative too)
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NuclearDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Well, the cost to recharge a Volt battery is pretty insignificant
Yes, you'll notice the increase on your electricity bill, but it won't be enough to really cause a financial strain.

Which is why I'm stockpiling solar panels for when I convert my first EV. :)
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
37. "Pretty insignificant" is not at all true.
Yes, it costs less to refuel an EV than a gasoline-
or diesel-powered car, but it's on the order of
one-half to one-third as expensive, not "insig-
nificant(ly)" expensive.

Tesha
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. But diesel can be made from plant matter now, correct?
And I imagine organic fuel technology is only going to get better.
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NuclearDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. True, which is why I specified with petrodiesel
Which is still what most diesel fuel is, depending on where you live.
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. You can run a diesel on 100% biofuel. What's the alternative to petro for a gasser? n/t

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Kalyke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm sure they will build something similar - and so will Ford.
Edited on Thu Jan-27-11 03:39 PM by Kalyke
The American public is still not flocking to these mostly ugly step-sisters in the "Green" world and Ford & Chevy exist in the United States to sell cars and car goods.

Once the demand gets there, I'm pretty sure Ford and Chevy will go this route.
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GSLevel9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I hope so...
we need a 21st Century VOLKSWAGEN (People's Car) made by Ford or Chevy.

70mpg, $15K USD. And add a small incentive like they do for hybrids... they'd sell TONS of them and we'd cut our oil imports BIG-TIME.

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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. 70mpg @ $15K USD + incentives = SOLD!
Make the base cars 'smart' (GPS, iPod, bluetooth), and add trim levels with more comprehensive electronic and luxury packages.... they'd sell like hot cakes.

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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. 15K is too expensive. You need to make it for 10K
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NuclearDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. 10K?
Edited on Thu Jan-27-11 10:21 PM by NuclearDem
I bought my ten year old Dodge Ram with 90K on it for 13K :P
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. People have a strange idea of car prices sometimes
It's amazing how often I see the Leaf for example called "priced way out of the average car buyer's range" when price net of rebates is below the median new car price, which by definition means more than 50% -including our mythical "average car buyer" are paying more than that for a car.

I don't think even the Korean econobox makers have anything under 10k these days here.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. "Median new car price" is priced way out of the average American's range
The Average American isn't the Average New Car Buyer.
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Marblehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. 2 words
air car...compressed air instead of batteries
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taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. No thanks.
I know it's 70mpg, but I HATE diesel exhaust smogging up the air.
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GSLevel9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I'd normally agree BUT
my friend has a new Jetta TDI wagon and it's not like diesel cars of yore... no smell and no rattle.

Environment According to the EPA, the 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI consumes 11.6 barrels of petroleum annually with the manual transmission and 11.9 barrels of petroleum annually with the automatic transmission. The resulting carbon footprint rating is 6.2 tons of air pollution per year with the manual and 6.4 tons of air pollution per year with the automatic. The Volkswagen Jetta TDI with the automatic receives a national air pollution score of 6 out of 10 and a California/New England score of 6 out of 10. Models with a manual transmission did not have an EPA air pollution score at the time this review was published.

BTW, the Honda Civic gasoling engine produces 6.4 tons of CO2 annually.
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. This is not your grandpa's diesel, I guarantee you. nt
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
28. For quite a few years now, European diesel cars have been nothing like...
...the diesels you knew from the past. Of course, over
there, they still believe in a strong regulatory environment
*AND* progress.

Tesha
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taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. You do know that Europeans pay more taxes for diesel
because of the damage to the environment right?

I believe the future is a hybrid/small turbo combo. I'd like to see 1.4l turbo engines become more popular.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Europeans pay more taxes for all transportation fuels because:
1) It encourages economical usage of the fuels and

2) The taxes pay for subsidies of non-automotive transportation.

It isn't confined to diesel; where did you get that idea?

Tesha
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. Why don't you call Volkswagen AG and demand they sell it here
GM doesn't have to do shit. The demand for these cars is minuscule in the US, and in most urban settings, diesel is a non-starter because so few stations carry it.


Demanding GM build this, jesus.
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GSLevel9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. demand for the Volt is miniscule. nt
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Ermm.. no it isn't. Hence the months long wait list and the multiple EVs due to be launched soon
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GSLevel9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. what are the production numbers?
GM has planned on a production run of 10,000 vehicles.

btw, toyota sold 139,000 Prius in 2009.

As I said before... there is no demand for the Volt.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Uh the reason the first year's production was so low was lack of batteries
and GM has publicly stated that. Once the battery pack plant comes on line, full speed ahead.

Google is your friend.....
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. The Bluemotion Polo won Top Gear's race to Blackpool.
'nuff said.
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GSLevel9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. nice, I'll google that later.
Edited on Thu Jan-27-11 08:43 PM by GSLevel9
But anyways...

I propose that GM/Ford and Chrysler would actually share a powerplant and other technology and parts so that the cost could be brought down. With a mass-produced powertrain and an exterior and trim demanded by the mfg the cost could be pushed WAY down. Have the Fed cover $2500 on a lease or purchase, 3 year lease around $150/mo or 5 year 0% financing for around $250/mo.

With time, diesel would drop in price too. Remember back in the olden-days when diesel was .25 cheaper than gasoline.

Problem is... it will never happen because the car co's make WAY TOO MUCH $$ mfg iron pigs and the oil co's make WAY TOO MUCH $$ making fuel for Suburbans and Mustangs.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. EDIT - woops thought the Jag did but not so. Did have more range tho. NT
Edited on Fri Jan-28-11 05:45 AM by dmallind
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taterguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-11 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. Or just move to a central location where you won't have to drive much anyway
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. And where you generally can't afford one because of how much you have to spend on housing nt
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taterguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. I must live in the only city with reasonably priced housing that's conveniently located
Lucky me

nt
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The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-11 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
29. What it's being driven on is worse than what's being driven
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-11 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
36. Save the Earth- Buy more stuff n/t
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